Cloudstreet by Tim Winton
Cloudstreet by Tim Winton is the best Australian novel I’ve read in several years. I preface that by saying I don’t read many Australian novels, having been disappointed in the past and wishing to “travel” through my reading.
That said, Winton’s Western Australian setting is unique enough for me to enjoy the experience and his writing is simply superb.
The book traces the fortunes and misfortunes of two rural families who move to the big smoke of Perth after different tragedies. Chronic gambler and loser Sam Pickles lost one hand in a boating accident, while the vivacious favorite son in the Lamb family, named Fish, became retarded after nearly drowning. The time setting is over two decades from 1945.
The relevance of the timeframe is that Sam inherited a large house in Perth, with a sensible covenant that he couldn’t sell it for 20 years. Everyone expected him to sell the house when the time came to cover his gambling debts.
The Pickles need money and rent out half the house to the Lambs. It’s literally split down the middle, including the back yard.
The Lambs are industrious and teetotal. The Pickles are mostly lazy and the mother, Dolly, is an alcoholic. The Lambs convert their front room into a general store and although they live poor, accumulate money and do well for themselves in their own eccentric way.
The families gradually become closer together over time. The marriage of Rose Pickles to Quick Lamb consolidates the union.
A strength of this novel is Winton’s clever development of characters and their sensitive portrayal, including the less desirable ones. Even the minor players have personalities that become likeable. The retarded boy, Fish, commands love as much as pity.
There is much humor. Sam’s philosophy in life is to believe in the “shifting shadow” of luck. He wins rarely and becomes resigned to handing over his salary from the Mint each week to the bookies. A pig given to the Lambs for Christmas fare becomes a pet and “talks” to Fish.
Part of the appeal of this book for me was the credibility of the characters; their language and idiosyncrasies. I saw some of my father’s family from the same era in both families.
Winton writes with a tight narrative, which always flows logically and in a captivating way that teases you into turning the next page.
His use of dreams and a cameo “Blackfella” confused me a little, but didn’t distract from the overall mood. I understood the imagery of a resident ghost in the house. She represented the spirit of the home, which was initially dark and gloomy. She disappeared when Rose and Quick created a window in the library and moved in with their baby Harry, thereby bringing the families together in love and happiness.
The cover of this book describes it as a “modern Australian classic”. I have to agree.
Tags: Books, cloudstreet, tim-winton, winton
This book was hopeless and a tragedy, no one likes it. Too bad for Tim winton, cuz it was a FAILURE!
P.s i liked the pig
ignore my friend, this book rox my sox and i think quick is extremely sexy and hot. the pig should be named WILBUR-BOBBY… yer
this book is shit- I HATE ENGLISH!
Tim Winton failed with this book, and now children all around Australia have to suffer by reading his book for a class novel.
Tim Winton clearly wins the award for “Biggest Try-Hard of the Twentieth Century”.
This is the most boring thing i have ever read its slow moving Bulls*#t which should be pushed right to the back of the book shelve
Its a pretty lousy book, i mean he could have at least thought of some better names. the story is completely redundant for us poor senior school students, cos like sif thats gonna ever happen. what makes it soo good :S
I’ve got this book for English too. I hated it, mostly because it lacked plot, and was more a study in character development. Winton spent 400 odd pages developing the characters with small and very unclimatic events and problems, and never gave a real point to it all. In all honesty, I’d say it isn’t even a novel – the lack of proper grammar, the free verse writing and the fact there wasn’t a unifying plot would lend it more to poetry. So it’s not a novel; it’s a long, bad poem.
i thought Cloudstreet was great! i had to read it for school but it was a great story that has lasted all this time and will be a classic! i thought Winton developed his main characters well and i was very satisfied with the ending. even though i found it hard to get into, by the end it was sad to finish, but he tied it up nicely and left me feeling content with what i’d read.
ignore everyone else’s negativity, it’s fab! =)
Jules, I agree with you! Cloudstreet it great. Anyone who can’t see that has obviously completely missed the point. Lack of a unifying plot? One of the best things about Winton’s writing is the way he manages to unify the plot so beautifully. The house alone unifies the entire story, the fact that it was told in those seconds it took for fish to die, the recurrent themes – its a literary masterpiece and Tim Winton is a genius and anyone who can’t see that… well why don’t you just take your substandard IQ and stick to whatever trashy, mainstream shit you call writing and leave Cloudstreet alone!
Im reading this book for English too and i didnt mind the actual book but the fact that i have to study it makes me loathe it! I hate English so much and i cant wait till the HSC is over so i can never write another essay again!
It’s nice to see that some Year 12 students actually appreciated this book.
the more i read this book, the more i HATE it. it makes no sense and doesnt seem to have a proper meaning at all but rubbish. i dont know how people can read it more then once. my teacher is reading it to my class and its terrible, she just drags it on and makes it so much more painful to read. thank goodness its all over and i wont ever have to read it again
I absolutly hate this book! Maybe I will like it when I’m older but not right now. I was meant to read it for a yr 12 assignment analysing it with discourses, sympolisms etc and I am proud to say I have only read 1 chapter! lol It’s due 2morrow and it’s a speech so maybe i should stop typing this and read the book!!
I’ll admit that I haven’t finished reading the book, but I feel like I don’t have to. We have just finished studying it in class and because we hdid a detailed analysis of the pot I know what is going to happen, but I still want to read the ending.
For those out there that feel the text lacked plot, that’s because you had to study it for english. I’m not saying that you would have looked at it on a shlef and said yeah I think I’ll read that, but you probably would have enjoyed it more that way. But I have also found that because I have studied the text I understand more fully what it is about.
The reason the text has no speech marks is so that there is no distinction between the spiritual fish and what is actually happening, because it is all seen through the fish that isn’t really there. The lack of proper gramma is there to show that the families are from the working class and that they are aussie battlers with little or no education at all. if you seriously think about the australians in the 1940’s can you honestly say that you think they speak with proper english? making sure they pronounce every syllable correctly? we dont even do that now, and it is made very obvious when there is an aussie movie or actor/ress on our screens.
Cloudstreet has more meaning once you have studied more than your own reading. when i first started reading cloudstreet i hated it, i would get migranes from trying to follow extremely bad english with the most cornist of things happening and the lack of anxiety/excitment when something major was happening nearly killed me. the crude language used by the characters and the way sex was talked about made me cringe. but once i had studied the language and the postcolonist readings i understood it more. once i had read a marxist reading and a gender based and a socio-political reading i undertsood the text even more.
Tim Winton chose the time setting for a specific reason, it was the time that people around the world relate to australians. we are seen as people who have kangaroos and koalas running wild in a backyards with no modern technology and a very bad acent.
if anything you need to read a postcolonial reading at least, it will explain some of the things that happen for you.
yeah, its not the most thrilling book in the world (especially once you’ve read it 3+ times) but i love it anyway cos of the way winton has you get to know the characters gets you to care about what happens to them- which, considering not much outta the ordinary happens, is a pretty impressive accomplishment. i think its a great book to study, all the metaphor, symbolism, biblical allusions etc really interested me and made me appreciate it more.
i love this book its the best one ive had 2 read in lit this year i lov the way it combines fact an fiction like the use of real street names and fake ones and the pig speaking in tongues its jst so creative like where fish died but he half came back and the other half is watching over the rest of them. there is jst so much u can get out of it which is great for the essays! i agree with every1 how it ddnt build up alot of emotions but this book IS a masterpiece and tim winton ROCKS!!
This an amsome book. I recommend anyone doing TEE English to read it as one of their example texts as it can be applied to lots of exam questions. But it is a great book my favourite character is Quick. Ten out of Ten.
i cant believe u uneducated idiots who read this book and then talked about the way u did. fair enough, u dont have to like it but to say that it was “hopeless” and “shit” is unbelievable. i too have to do it for english and yes it can get tedious cos any english book is but tim winton is truly a talented and amazing author who created an insightful and evocative novel.
P.S saying u only “liked the pig” and that “quick was hot” really says something about your intellect. im guessing u didnt pass english and thats why ur pissed off…
this book is great. it sux because we have to kill it by studying small irrelevant details and it therefore becomes tediously overdone. but try to block the study from your mind and appreciate the book for a damn good yarn.
Doesn’t anyone use punctuation anymore?
How about capital letters?
Yeh, i reckoned quick was really hot also;)
The book was nice. The book’s tone quite clearly displays Tim Winton’s disgust towards the treatment of the indegienous people of Australia. The constant reference to water symbolises how the indegienous people of australia ‘flowed’ with the way they were treated. Tim Wintons uses cloudstreet as a vechile to position a reader to respond negatively towards colonial ideologies and prevailing ideas regarding race and colour.
The use of iceblocks may have been effective in representing how the aboriginal people who inhabiated the swan river region were somewhat ‘frozen’ by the degredation they experienced.
I feel compelled to declare that the fact that literary critics like yourselves are able to label a character “hot” by merley reading the text has me truly amazed as to the true power of literature. You have never seen Quick and yet you know he’s “hot”. And how is that? Because Mr Winton himself has constructed a fictional environment which positions you to regard him as an admiarable character. A character who has experienced it all. A character who has been to hell and beyond. Oh, and he snagged the cute, slim and tanned; Miss Pickles, so we have to assume that he’s not too bad with the ladies.
Personally, I’m going to be a bit provocative and say that the character i regard the most attractive is Lester Lamb. He’s got that true-blue Aussie spirit, experience on his back, a solid built Chev and how could one not devote their admiration in its entirety to him for putting up with that awful, bitch-face Oriel.
I agree with you Miss Cecily 100%…Finally someone with brains has added a viable and intelligent comment. Thankyou.
My dear Kate,
Is it entirely fair of you to deduce whether or not people have brains merely by reading comments that they have made on a site that they must invariably have been looking for in the wee hours of the morning in a valiant attempt at making sense out of the surreal mysiticism to be found in the 20kg rock at the bottom of their bag that proclaims itself to be a novel named “Cloudstreet” ?
True, certain others of us, (myself included, and I’m assuming my dear friend Kate is one of these) find Winton’s Cloudstreet to be a rather enlightening read, a quintessentially Australian text that deserves many of the plaudits it has received. It does however, have its flaws, though I wouldn’t consider myself so enlightened that I could ever say that Tim Winton deserves the “Biggest Try-hard award” or whatever other poppycock and nosense certain others on this site have vomitted up, in the true Aussie spirit of Tall Poppy Syndrome.
Miss Cecily, I must agree most wholeheartedly with you. Lester Lamb is indeed one of the most attractive (or “hot” if you must) of the lot, though I should say that darling old Toby Raven gives him quite a run for his money, if not the other way round. And, to take another point of yours, he too had intimate relations with one Miss Rose Pickles, certifying that he must have been somewhat charming, if a little stupid.
I retract my statement about the wee hours of the morning. It turns out that most of this site’s users in fact, use this site at fairly convenient times. I still however maintain, that this is a valiant attempt at understanding what is, quite occasionally, a load of …..
Fishiness Abounds, you are in fact correct. This is merely a website people have come to in order to get some questions answered, thus they have not put in much effort in their comments. However, i still find some/many peoples comments some-what narrow minded, shallow, and just plain stupid. No hard feelings but thats the truth of the matter. Is it really that hard to think a LITTLE before writing a comment? I think not…
in response to Miss.Cecily’s comment…..i would just like to say: that
“The chance of a piece of bread falling with the buttered side down is directly proportional to the price of the carpet”
and how the fact….that someone who “you” do not know…..nor they know “you”…manages to agree with you so “whole heartedly” in an ironic way i have never experienced before…in my entire life….
and how a “mysterious” Fishiness Abounds can make that same person….turn their head…..and walk the other way….”must be somewhat charming, if a little stupid”
You must remember Miss.Cecily..that “Everyone has a scheme for getting rich…that WILL NOT work”…
and…those, who many of you find “enlighteningly delicious” constructions of a novel….are nothing more…
As binary opposition would have it, what I am about to divulge is entirely opposed as to what Mr. Smile has said.
First and foremost your excessive use of quotation marks is unnecessary if not somewhat offputting. Must you insist on making the obvious even more emphasised?
Secondly to your first quote, I’m afraid that unless you’re using it purely for it’s moral worth that it is enitrely incorrect from a scientific point of view, although yes there is psychological evidence which supports it but we shall not go into that here.
To your comments on how co-incidental the above posts all seem, why burst their bubble? I have no idea whether it was contrived or not but I believe that no one these days can be bothered to execute such a pointless exercise and hell, if they did, just go along with it like I am.
Oh and finally, I believe Miss Cecilly does have a delicious scheme for atttaining riches…that WILL work. Apparently she’s into older men (why else would she appoint Lester the most attractive character?) and she’s milking it for all it’s worth. Touché and good evening.
Mr. Frown may i remind you that although your comments hold validity and are seemingly sprinkled with intelligence and subtle wit, this is indeed a site for those wishing to comment on one such text that starts with a ‘c’ and rhymes with ‘meet’.
How about you follow the narrow minded, specutalive trend we have developed of commenting on the appearances of characters we have never seen and inform us as to who you believe is the most attractive cloudstreet female.
And with regard to older men, do i even need to elaborate as to why Lester Lamb is by far the most appealing male.
you see,
Men are like leaves.
As the Autumn of their lives approaches, their colors are brighter than ever before.
haha….
im just going to laugh…"Mr.Frown"… seems to find what i say extremely "bubble-bursting", and would not agree to its worth, although also decides copy the jist of my name…….i like it…..hahaha….
Mr.Frown my friend….
"Any tool dropped while repairing a car will roll underneath to the exact center"…..
but then again…..it does depend what car your repairing does it not?? take for example Lesters Chev…
and yes Mr.Frown….why dont you concentrate your time on informing us who you belive is the most attractive cloudstreet female….rather than wasting your time trying to reach that "left handed" hammer of yours that decided to magically roll to the Exact Centre of your "Scientific" brain….
And Miss.Cecily; its not All men that are like leaves… some are like Poinsettia’s………there is something magical about them…..flowers that bloom through the darkest days of the year…..
You sound like a bunch of bored english teachers….get a life. It is nice to finally see some thought put into the comments but this is too much! It’s just a web-site so enough with the metaphors!
Oh it’s on now. Clearly the hottest chic is Dolly. Or maybe Rose. Or maybe both…at the same time. Nevermind that I think Kate is onto us, I better tell everyone in the faculty lounge to stop posting on this site.
Also Kate, those are simile’s not metaphors. Maybe Mr. Smile could throw in some conciet and we’d have the whole collection.
Something more relevant: does anyone agree with the statement “Cloudstreet is a radical text challenging our cultures myths”? At least this is far less narrow-minded then this talk of who’s the most attractive character, because clearly overall the pig takes it hands down.
Finally, men are like neither of those things. In fact they have nothing to do with such vegetable nonsense, men… are BUFF (well some are). This traces back to the primedial days when testosterone ruled and such debates over who’s hot and who’s not was pathetic. Creatine v12 turbo, protein that makes you Buff. I’m excited.
I’d like to meet you Kate. I’ll bet my own treasured copy of Cloudstreet that you dress in black, live by routine and don’t have a boyfriend. Why else would you be so incomprehensibly pathetic as to visit a site merely to comment on other posts.
And to reinforce the point made by Mr Frown, there is infact a distinct difference between a simile and a metaphor. If you had properley read Mr Smile’s post, which i know you didn’t, you would have observed his statement that implied that men are “LIKE” Poinsettias. I’m terribly sorry Kate but it seems you may need to revisit your year ten english journal, if you kept one at all that is.
Mr Frown, i can’t say i agree with the statement that says “Cloudstreet is a radical text challenging our culture’s myths?”
When you consider the truth of such a statement it really implies that Australian society and the society represented in the text differ somewhat. Either that or the society in the text is presented in such a way that we are positioned to see it differently than we previously did.
Life isn’t that mirraculous that we can consider ourselves worlds away from the cloudstreet residents.
We all know a Toby Raven, we all know a Sam and i know i have to look no further than my own mother to see a bit of Oriel. Too often people think that because a text is fiction, it’s sudenly a piece of “catch-me-if-you-can” material.
Oh, and yes with regard to your idea’s on physical build Mr Frown i have to say that i think the biggest tragic element of the whole text is just that. The fact that the most potentially attrative character (Fish) was robbed of his ability to become buff!
He could have been such a pin-up boy.
I’m amazed at how strongly people feel about this book! Well i just want to say that I enjoyed reading it, and for me analysing and discovering the deeper meanings of different texts encourages me to appreciate and enjoy them more!
P.S. I don’t quite agree that Quick is “hot” eg “He was a fair skinned, melancholy boy, slim and a little cagey around the ribs…” page 137. Not to mention that he was a little slow…but who am i to judge! each to their own!!
Miss Cecily I must reprimand you for being so harsh towards others who are merely casually commenting on Cloudstreet. Not everyone is in possession of such an all-knowing intellect such as your own. In any case, we are here to educate, not decapitate.
I notice another person shares the same view that Quick isn’t “hot”. To be honest I dont think any of the male characters can be regarded as attractive and if I was gay…which I most certainly am not, I’d go for none of them.
Also, Mr. Smile, hammers dont roll. They tend to just stay where they are once dropped, but of course the same magic you talk of which allows hammers to roll into brains is also that very magic of whence your IQ comes from…that magical land of single digits. You should cut your losses on this board and publish a book of your seemingly endless quotes and title it: “1000 ways to kill brain cells”. I’ll endorse it.
Mr Frown, for someone of your suggested erudition, you don’t seem to really understand that this site is about Cloudstreet – you know, that NOVEL ?…by that guy?…Tim Winton?…And, why my dear fellow, must you be such a patronising twat, with your snide comments levelled at such innocents as Mr Smile? On the other hand, I must join you in your reprimanding of one Miss Cecily. I must chide you, Miss Cecily, for being rather mean. Then again, Mr Frown is rather a presumptuous berk and I feel that it is best not to sink to his level.
On the subject of the novel , and your question Mr Frown, I don’t think one can agree with the statement. Cloudstreet conforms to the cultural myths of the day. And Miss Cecily, you said that “it really implies that Australian society and the society represented in the text differ somewhat”.Not to be a nitpicker, but I was of the impression that the novel was in fact a representation of Australian society, and not one separate to it as your sentence suggests.
On your other point, yes, Fish was most definitley hard done by. Ah, buffness….I would greatly appreciate it Mr Frown, if you would refrain from likening buffness or anything close to it to Creatine V12 Turbo again, or suggesting that you are, in any way “excited”. Its disturbing.
Mr Smile, it is not entirely difficult to believe in someone’s ideas wholeheartedly even if one does not know them personally, which is what the “mysterious” Fishiness Abounds suggested, if one was astute enough to read properly. However, I fear that that is a talent belonging to people few and far between, and I sigh to think of it. I also sigh thinking of the attrociousness of your excessive quoting and your far too recursive “dot-dot-dots”.
If I were male, or a female besieged with … certain… tendencies, I think I’d go for Dolly. Even if she pushes you down the stairs, who doesn’t want to go for “an arse like that”?.
Who *wouldn’t*, I meant
Thank-you Miss Cordelia Twat. How can one with such an innocuous name as Mr Smile be such an annoyance?
On a brighter note, does anyone else here think that Kate and Miss Cecily are one and the same?
Oh come on everyone, we all know this site is being used as an outlet for all of us to pass the piss. Miss Cordelia, I must assure that I certainly do understand that the very reason for all of us being here is because of Winton’s “Cloudstreet” but you must agree with me that it is much more entertaining to bag the person above you. Being presumptious comes with the territory darling, best to shoot first and ask questions later. Believe me, Mr. Smile is no innocent, he’s the reason why the lovely eyebrow endowed PM Howard had our nation be: “Alert, but not alarmed”. Besides, at least my remarks have no ill-intent, whereas that Miss Cecily is forever loaded with hidden menace.
I dont mean to pick on you Miss Cordelia, but hypocrisy is obviously one of your better traits. You should try reading more astutely yourself, Miss Cecily mentioned that it was the QUESTION that implied that statement, not the novel itself. I would greatly appreciate it, Miss Cordelia, that you educate yourself more adequately on such noble arts as bodybuilding before you comment. Creatine San V12 Turbo is the “shit” that makes you “buff”. Period. Besides, what is wrong with being excited? Don’t tell me there is nothing out there which tickles your fancy? Floats your boat?
On one point I must agree with, yes Dolly is by far the most attractive character. She is the “femme fatale”, and believe me it’s not just the arse.
And no Fishiness Abounds, Miss Cecily is most definitely not Kate, she would not sink to such lows to demonstrate her superiority over others. For she is, after all, the resident “arse-kicker” of this site. I’m just here on vacation.
Thankyou so much Mr. Frown for your unconditional support. What an erudite fellow you are. Your careful observance of the mistakes of others has saved my dear, fragile fingers from having to type away prolifically at my keyboard in an attempt to caution the likes of Kate and Miss. Cordelia Twat to not jump into the lake without first testing the water for submerged objects.
Oh, how silly of me, looks like i already did.
To more pressing matters and i feel compelled to explore this idea of “the surreal”. Is it really appropriate to label the atmosphere of this text as bizarre and dreamlike or are we simply reading too much into it?
Is the ending really too blissful?
Is the storyline lacking plausibility?
Is everything contained within the text just a little fantasy the pig had one afternoon?
Am i posing far too many rhetorical questions or am i just attempting to construct and angry backlash against a certain comment made by a ‘not-to-be-named’ member of my English Literature class one boring, tedious afternoon that pointed to Cloudstreet being nothing more than a creation of “Hollywood”.
Share your thoughts fellow chums as we criticise literature, each other and ourselves in the name of….well……in the name of art!.
Miss Cecily, you disappoint me. Of all posts this site hosts I had firmly established in my mind that yours were in fact of the more cleverly, well written and of the more subtle persuasion. Instead you have chosen to side with a facial expression, merely because he called you the “resident ‘arse kicker’”, whilst he praises himself also , suggesting that he too is one of these “arse kickers”. Which in some ways he is, but really, his presumptuousness overrides everything else. Really Miss Cecily, I must ask you to revert to your original style of subtle and tactful menace as opposed to attempting overt intimidation tactics. The former had much more entertaining effect.
And my dear fellow Mr Frown, I never said that there was something wrong with being excited ,so perhaps YOU should learn to read before criticising the comments I made for a much more understandable reason regarding a badly phrased sentence. In any case, I merely remarked that the thought of you being ‘excited’ disturbed me ,and I requested that you stop. If you are a gentleman, as your manner suggests, you would stop.
Miss Cecily, what would your poor classmate think if she should happen to trawl through this site one day? Your tone suggests slight…animosity….Is there tension I see?..Perhaps I read too much into this. In any case, one can Never, ask too many rhetorical questions darling. One might even say, rhetorical questions are one of the many things that tickle my fancy, or, in Lehman’s terms, “float my boat”.
In response to your wonderful questions;I do not believe the ending is a completely perfect,blissful ending. The only pure character dies and goes to The Big Country, as opposed to staying on earth and preaching to the masses, because as we all know, Fish is the New Age Messiah. Of course the story line lacks plausibility; it’s by Tim Winton. Have you read “The Bugalugs Bum Thief”? Great story, but honest-to-goodness absolute nonsensicality, much like everyone who comments on this site, myself included.
On another issue, I believe you may be quite right. It IS all just the Pentecostal Pig’s fanciful afternoon daydream and the Pickles and the Lambs are in fact a rather functional family who live somewhere in a rather functional Hollywood. I must say though, your class-mate must have some extremely convoluted ideas of Hollywood, if they believe that Hollywood is blissful.
Hollywood, Cloudstreet is not. Dysfunctionally content, it is.
Miss Cecily, an English Literature class, “boring and tedious” ? Why, Never !!! How could one so hopelessly devoted to the Arts speak such profanity?! It dirth not become you.
Yours in the Arts.
Miss C. Twat.
An English literature class taught me to criticise . The same class which Miss.Cecily may find boring, and in which Miss.Twat finds an art. And the same class, which Mr.Frown seems never to have studied from.
“Some things are written to be read. Not written to be re-written by someone else, trying to explain what they mean, or what you think they mean.” Saad ‘05
So lets begin the games:
“nonsensicality” is not a REAL word Miss. Twat.
“Creatine V12 Turbo”…only makes you fat….DNF is the real deal….even though it has the potential of killing you Mr. Frown.
Asking “what tickles your fancy? Floats your boat?” is not an appropriate question here Mr.Frown, please find somewhere else to do it.
A “rhetorical question” does not imply the sudden urge for someone to answer…try using “imperative” or “fundamental” Miss. Cecily.
The subtle yet devotionally “long worded” way of asking someone to “take your side” Miss. Twat, does not make much of difference, if you had just asked to do so.
Fishiness seems to believe my name does not fit my character, why thankyou for your critical analysis…………….of me.
I believe its not the “arse”, but it’s the “heart in someone”…that makes them a lot more attractive, Miss. Twat, and Mr. Frown.
I am publishing a book Mr. Frown, maybe ill send you a copy, and then…..you can critique it here….
Kate….I don’t think you “dress in black, live by routine, and don’t have a boyfriend”………make yourself clear Kate, show us who you really are……do a little dance perhaps…
Sarah, living in the western world, and according to statistics, you have a 73.2% chance of falling in love with a someone who is “a fair skinned, melancholy boy, slim and a little cagey around the ribs…” so…..rather than judge his appearance, judge his aching heart, the heart which throbs every time it sees his brother, knowing it was he, himself, who stood on the net……
Hollywood, is a place where more than 95% of people learn their values Miss. Twat. Literature on the other hand is only read by 15% of the “educated” state.
A vacation can be sometimes be enjoyed more by the people whose “IQ comes from…that magical land of single digits” than those who believe themselves to be superior than the person who comes to mow-their-lawn.
And Miss. Cecily: “Catch me if you can” is a TERRIFIC movie.
Haha. Sorry guys. I just had to say all that. I must stress…..i say these with no ill intent.
On the aspect of literature though, is it possible to label Lester as an “emotional man”?? or “the traditional female of the 1940s/1960s?? and contrastingly his wife, as the “Woman Man”….or the “Woman King”….?? I seem to think these characters are representing the traditional portraits of gender stereotypes of that time, yet only “flipped” around. Like: Lester as the traditional female, and Oriel as the feminine patriarchal figure….does this seem to strike anyone as a piece of viable critique to Wintons Cloudstreet, which everyone seems to be forgetting here…….
The following is an essay that I presented to my class after we were told to give an oral presentation about the novel:
Cloudstreet – A Waste of Time
What makes a collection of words a novel? I can tell you what doesn’t. Cloudstreet is one of those “wanna-be-novels.” One of those “books” that does not mean anything. Sure, the writing style may incorporate traits that would deceive us into thinking that Cloudstreet is more than just the dull ramblings of an unhappy, misunderstood man. But that does not mean that it is worthy to be considered a novel. A novel must be more than words. It should be the perfect concoction of plot, characters, and writing style. If there is an overabundance of one ingredient, and a lack of another, the book is destined to failure. Not complete and utter, I am sure that someone will find it in their deepest sympathies to promote this book as something other than a shortcoming, but it will only serve to be placed in the “unused” section of your library, to be covered in dust and never read again. I have never been more blinded by disgust since I first discovered that piñatas weren’t really live animals.
The absence of a gripping plot was, I think, Winton’s biggest mistake. Sure, anyone can have the necessary schooling to write with metaphors and images, but it takes imagination and a whole lot of commitment to write a book with a plot that counts. You could almost compare sections of his book to a child’s storybook. Where else are you going to find the personification of barn-yard animals? The plot of Cloudstreet is almost nonexistent. Did not anyone stop to wonder why Cloudstreet never won any bestsellers awards? It’s because, simply put, the book was the most tedious piece of material I have ever encountered. If you would look into people’s comments about the book, you will see that I am not the only one who believes this. I love to read, and I find many books to my liking, but reading Cloudstreet made me contemplate suicide. The families are not that badly off, and yet from these “catastrophes” we conclude that they are living an oppressive, irredeemable life. People should not attempt to write about people badly off until they have seen it for themselves. The hypocrisy of Winton in describing the Lambs and Pickles as badly off is a blatant insult to the poverty and despair found in many parts of the world.
It is rather nice that Winton made such an abundance of characters, pity that they are no more interesting than a ball of lint. A pile of rocks would be more entertaining. All of his characters have partial personalities, much like the French. He spends the first half of the book trying to establish solid characters, and fails. If you compare his characters to one in, say, a Stephen King novel, you will see a vast difference in quality. When creating a character for a book, no matter the type, you always need to be able to see the character. You need to be able to recognize the character as someone who could be real. The characters are of vast importance to the success of the novel, but even though the characters are shallow, Winton still manages a certain degree of intelligence as his characters have been known, on occasion, to say something that makes sense in today’s cluttered world.
Winton’s writing style is about the one thing that he did well. Although slightly unorthodox, his writing style creates a vivid image of the thought he is attempting to convey. I though it was quite clever how even the structure of the dialogue can be used as foreshadowing, and it is rather refreshing to find an author who believes that analogies do not have to be used perpetually in order to create enrapturing images. True, his words are not taken very well by the youth of the audience, but I think that of this entire book, the writing style is the only thing that atones for all the books faults.
This book was amazing. Amazing for the fact that I would rather drink acid than read it again. I, honestly, have never encountered a book that I actually regretted reading, until I read this. Sure, there are several redeeming features, but none could possibly counter the failure of the writer. Cloudstreet sucked.
Don’t worry, the following message does not make any positive or negative connotations to anyone except those who have so dim-wittedly provoked such comments.
Firstly to the “wanna-be-novel” theolurgans, unless you have actually written a book i would caution you against making such comment as to suggest this book was “plotless”. Books, the last time i checked, are written by a strange species known as the human – although rumours have been circulating, they are NOT, i repeat NOt, written by robots/machines. I also haven’t seen a checklist on how to write a book either.
So what exactly is a plot? For those of you who don’t know that is…
In literary criticism, this term refers to the pattern of events in a narrative or drama. In its simplest sense, the plot guides the author in composing the work and helps the reader follow the work. Typically, plots exhibit causality and unity and have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Sometimes, however, a plot may consist of a series of disconnected events, in which case it is known as an “episodic plot.”
- this definition can be found on google search – all you have to do is type in define + plot
Therefore, I conclude that the book did have a plot and even if this plot did not meet your expectations it does exist.
I found the book to be filled with symbolic, sociological and ethereal content. It engaged my attention and demanded questioning. Good literature doesn’t read like an auto-script, it challenges the reader – delves into their value system. If you want mass manufactured magazine books, i suggest you take your expectations somewhere else. As far as i’m concerned, this being the opinion of a student mind you, Tim Winton is the type of writer that Australia needs more of. It’s not a story you could find re-published in another country, it is unique Australian prose.
There are some faults i admit, sometimes the spiritual influence is a little too much.
Mr. Smile, although i do agree with your gender role comments to an extent, i have found that these characters should not be dismissed as Winton’s own originality or re-arrangement. In fact, i believe that i may be somewhat related to Lester and Oriel.
For those who take the attitude that Cloudstreet was a failure, if you have not already gathered that i disagree with this belief – i reiterate the point once more. If Cloudstreet failed you, maybe you should get some more life-experience and read it when you’re able to be challenge and aren’t being force-fed.
Sorry, forgot to raise the point of the sociological references etc. that i found in the book. Did anyone else notice how Cloudstreet can be seen as a rebellion against the nuclear family trend occuring at the time? This struggle is also represented in Rose’s dream home in the suburbs.
I also wanted to discuss the characters, if any of you actually discuss anything else other than the respective egos behind these cultured comments . . .
I also apologise to anyone who is offended by my night-owl tendencies but some people do have day time lives – not that i count myself as one of them, just letting you know . . .
Mr. Smile
Please carefully observe the following.
I am going to, out of the kindness of my heart; illustrate exactly how you have cleverly constructed your own tragedy.
First let me define the word
Tragedy: the downfall of a noble protagonist due to fault of his or her own.
You have successfully wasted sixteen mouse clicks of this page telling other writers how they are inferior to your superb intelligence, skills of analysis and unmatchable moral standards.
The only thing i feel i can possibly give you credit for is the way in which you have put so much thought into the layout of your post by dedicating a sentence to each person you wish to criticise. Thank you so much for leaving spaces in between your verbal jibberish in order that we find it just that bit more comprehensible.
I must inform you, i am completely aware of my hypocritical nature in detesting the content of your post but i feel compelled to do all in my power to stop such incidents occurring in the future.
You Mr. Smile are indeed a man of many words but perhaps you should deliver to us one wheelbarrow of gold instead of one hundred filled with dry leaves.
Be careful what you say Sir Smile, one day you’ll start to frown.
Deepest Apologies to all those visiting this site with the intention of reading about the likes of the Street in the Clouds, however, the line has to be drawn. I hope the chalk i used was dark enough.
“Haha…I just had to say all that. I must stress…..i say this with no ill intent”.
Yours with a sharpened dagger (metaphorically)
Miss Cecily
Life……you guys must love wasting it.
The radiation generated by your computer monitors doesnt provide a healthy substitute for sunlight.
Thank you Miss Cecily for your beautiful display of hypocrasy, your witty one-liners, your re-hashed metaphors and any other so-called “intelligent” content you have contributed to this site. I say thank you because the above display has served to rally my spirits through the best medicine of them all – laughter. Also, the last time i checked, this was an actual discussion about Cloudstreet, not a discussion about egotistical “intelligent” people.
None of these cultured comments or witty rebukes could possibly stand behind the simplicity of Winton’s work and win. I rest my case.