Mathemagic Computer Tutor
We had a visit today from a salesman for the Australian Institute of Mathematics who demonstrated the company’s Mathemagic computer tutor software for children.
When Juliet told me about the appointment I understood it was a government program to test children at maths, so I was immediately wary and defensive when I learnt it was a commercial product.
I’ve got no opinion on the software. From the demo I would say it clearly has some value and could even be useful. At the quoted price tag of $7530 though (for the complete package) I have no intention of buying it.
Sure, it could be cheaper in the long run than home tutors, and what price do you put on your children’s education? That’s the sales pitch of course and I’m not surprised they were selling strongly in Kalgoorlie where we have a shortage of teachers and high affluence.
I have a few issues though with the whole deal.
Juliet is a soft touch for salespeople, but clearly she misunderstood the initial pitch.
The name “Australian Institute of Mathematics” is legitimate but misleading in my view. For starters, it implies a not-for-profit status.
The cost is huge for the target market of middle-income families. For that investment you get some software and backup from telephone tutors. I could buy all the kids computers for that money, running Windows Vista and a full suite of programs.
I also don’t like being asked to pay that amount upfront without a trial. There should be an introductory module for kids to try. If they liked it and showed progress I might be inclined to consider buying it.
And as with every product purchase, I like to make comparisons.
It turns out there is much cheaper software available called Maths Power. Their site includes a warning for parents about other operators. This section was interesting:
Beware of sales organisations that have official sounding words as part of their name. These words give the impression of some sort of connection to official bodies or places of higher learning. Unfortunately, there is no law preventing sales companies from using the terms in their names to give parents the impression that they are in some way an official body.
I could buy Maths Power for $750, or 10 percent of Mathemagic’s cost.
For all I know it might only be 10 percent as good, but without testing both of them I have no way of knowing.
As it stands I am simply confused and know only that I won’t be buying Mathemagic. Comment here.
Tags: education, Kids, mathemagic, tuition
I had an AIM salesman in my house last night and had a similar experience to you. He used a lot of emotional arguments to try to win us over. I asked him if I could opt out if I wasn't happy after a year and he looked at me as though I had asked if I could throw away diamonds. And of course there was no trial period except for a half hour test with him controlling it. To be fair, the software did look good – but not $6000 worth.I followed your link to the MathsPower website and it looks just as suitable but under much better pricing and conditions. I will evaluate this one. Thanks for the link.
I would like to mention our new maths tutoring software, written by ATS. Its called primary maths tutor and the RRP is just AU $27.50 (about US $20) and it covers the entire maths syllabus from grades 3 up to the end of primary school. It is highly effective improving students mathematics skills. You can email me at atomic_stuff@hotmail.com if youd like to know more about purchasing the software.
My wife and I also had the full 2 1/2 hour sales pitch and I was eager to get the software.. BUT when he told us the price I nearly had a heart attack.. expecting it to be expensive at $2500 I could not see how anyone could afford it and was just starting to feel cheap when I found your web page.. Maths Power looks like a good alternative… Thanks very much
Thank you for letting me know how much the maths program cost. I filled in the forms at Southland and got a call to book a presentation night. When they refused to tell me the cost of the program over the phone (or in person at the mall) I was very suspicious! NOW I KNOW WHY!!!
I can just imagine the interest if they were truthful upfront with the price!
Thank you for your honesty. Now I can inform my other friends!
Wow, glad I got the sales person to leave….after 2.5 hrs ….. and got a chance to go google the company……… A lot of emotional stuff thrown at parents, don't like pushy sales. I also found the Maths Power website in my searching. Outright cd roms seem the best option if you ask me.
There seems to be a consensus that the price is too high and the sales methods are suspect. I think there needs to be an investigation by the relevant consumer authorities.
I reckon the biggest insult was where he tried to say the interest was only 1-2%…….. but I quickly calculated the over $40 per month over 4 years to be roughly $8,000…… um…….sounds closer to around 25 – 30%………ewwwhh……… When I worked out the $8,000 he just looked and said wow you are good at maths……….lol
Regarding our primary maths tutor software that I mentioned earlier – the price has been adjusted to $33 to reflect the significant improvements that have been made in our software. Furthermore, ATS (Acclaim Tuition Services) has now released a high school edition of our fantastic software and it covers grade 7 to 12 in High school maths. You can view more information at our web site: http://www.acclaimtuition.com or call our number, 1300 665 268. Just mention that Brendan referred you!
Wow, I am amazed at the cost. Being fair, what are the good things about the mathemagic computer tutor that they can warrant charging such an incredibly high fee? Has anyone seen it? What does it do? Does it provide feedback for students? I am interested to know how they can charge so much. I was going to look into it but definitely not at that cost. Thoughts?
Hi,
I am from Maths POWER and just came across your comments. The biggest mistake people make is to think that the lesser price means lesser value. This is one industry where this is simply not the case. As teachers and parents we were so appalled and concerned about parents being ripped off due to the emotional hard sell based on parents' love for their kids, we decided to change it and turn the industry on its head! We put together the ultimate, fool-proof program. It works so well, people come to us…we don't have to go to them. Those bigger price tags simply represent sales commissions for sales reps as they they have to be paid highly when they do sell one because they are paid for their time for all those that they didn't sell to.
The biggest warning sign is when there are no prices mentioned and there are no working samples on websites (you can guess there is no real quality of teacher instruction i.e. no teacher voice narration/explanation. This is the case even on the most expensive ones! There'll just be voice on read-out little passages or instructions such as "Click on the correct answer…etc, etc"). Some are much like text-book lessons on disc. These are the much cheaper ones. Similarly, if they are "click and enter" only programs, they will not help the child much. Kids must learn to do some pen and paper work just as they need to in exams, so the student can demonstrate that they have understood the processes and the setting out.
You also know it is most likely to work if companies offer a trial and full money-back guarantee. We don't have to send salespeople to your home because people contact us to order. We are Australia's Leading and most referred program with the phones ringing all day with new families that have been referred by their friends, family , teachers and principals. We have free trial demo lessons on our website. On top of that we allow families to Try before you buy: (http://www.mathspower.com.au/pages/TBYBInfo.asp) so you can test the program fully in your home for 21 days and on top of that we are the only maths company in Australia to also offer a 100% Lifetime Money Back Guarantee (http://www.mathspower.com.au/2004/MathsPowerGuarantee.asp) We do all this because we want kids to feel smart and be good at maths. So many really bright kids start to feel bad because of maths. We help every child that uses Maths POWER and also offer free phone tutor support, parent support and free online assessments.
We have the 'Try Before You Buy' option because we are not afraid to allow potential users to look closely at our software and we are confident that our programs are superior in quality, relevance and effectiveness.
Other companies will not allow this because they know that the poor quality (and/or deficiencies in curriculum content) of their programs will be exposed well within a month. But they count on this happening after the cooling off period has elapsed (normally 5-10 days).
It is quite clear that in this market, high price does not equate to high quality.
This following page will best explain why our prices are so affordable:
http://www.mathspower.com.au/bestmathssoftware.asp
I hope this helps.
Why dont you guys have a look ar ebay for Math software application. just search for math on ebay, you can find the ATS math thing for less than 20bucks
I too had a 2 1/2 hr demo and loved the programe.
The fact that this programe came with such a high pressure sales approach and price worried me though. The next day I got on the internet and discovered Maths Power. I also saw another computer tutor programe called kinetic education has anyone heard of or seen this programe in action.
Kinetic Education looks like more fun than mathspower and it also offers help with english but I fear that it is also a high pressure sales approach with a high price tag.
Hi Wendy,
I believe your fears are warranted. When the price is not upfront on the website and they come to your home to demonstrate you can safely assume it is a sales organisation with commission salespeople. It is certainly not more fun than Math Power.
All of our kids using Maths Power are having great fun with it. There are plenty of maths games out there that are merely fun and they are great if the student completely understands the maths and just wants to increase their speed skills. As Oscar said, you can get them for $20 as they are not that hard to create and they don't teach. Unfortunately maths is not fun when you don't understand it. That's why so many kids only use these interactive programs for a short while… as fun as it might look, it's not fun if you don't get it.
Maths Power incorporates interactivity but that's not the part of the program that gives the kids using it such great results, it's the fact that the kids are learning and understanding a new maths concept every time they do a quick lesson and exercise in 15-20 minutes. It's the only software that actually teaches the mathematics and the kids feel like they are being let in on maths little secrets in every lesson. The real fun starts when the kids realise that they are smarter than they thought and they start to really fly with it and it starts working so quickly.
The great thing about Maths Power that none of these other companies would ever do, is to let you trial the program because it works every time. These other companies would never let you do it because they know you wouldn't keep it. On the other hand, everyone keeps Maths Power when they trial it because the kids love doing it (they know for the first time they are really understanding maths – a subject that makes you feel intelligent if you can do it and not so intelligent if you can't).
The trial info is at: http://www.mathspower.com.au/pages/TBYBInfo.asp
Interestingly, there was a damning story on A Current Affair last night about these high pressure maths sales companies. You can see the video at: mms://news.netshow.ninemsn.com.au/news/current/july07/aca/070720_tutor.wmv
Hi Wendy,
As a maths teacher and founder of Kinetic Education, I seriously devote myself to providing the best help possible for our students. This is an Australian, family-owned business and we have been writing interactive educational software and assisting Australian students, for the past 17 years. We now have a thriving company, employing full-time programmers and educators and we keep pace with changes in technology and curriculum, right through from kinder to the various year 11 and 12 courses.
This is a big difference between Kinetic Education and other companies – we spend money on research and development.
It would have been all to easy to go the Maths Power way and write a few pages of computer tutorial and put it on CD with some printed work-sheets but we never even considered going down that path. Maths isn’t an easy subject to learn on paper — interactivity is a very powerful thing. Maths Wiz from Kinetic Education has thousands of interactive questions and worked solutions.
To see just how Kinetic helps students to improve, and what’s offered, please go to http://www.kineticeducation.com.au
We also believe that students need supervision and so we have developed unique technology to do that. Our system captures student results (and they are the real results because the computer generated them) and our tutors can make sure that the children are on the right track and send some words of encouragement and guidance. And, of course, we have homework help-lines for maths and English.
We hear some really heart-warming stories from our Kinetic families — and that makes up for all the years of hard-work involved in this business. On the other hand, it breaks my heart that there are cowboys in the industry and that people who would otherwise seek help for their children, may now be afraid to do so because of the aggressive sales tactics used by the so-called “Australian Institute of Maths” – the name itself is a lie but not illegal in Australia. People buy without even checking what they are getting, because they don’t know that any company with an ACN number can call itself “Australian” and “Institute” means nothing at all. There needs to be some better regulation on business names.
Yes, we do send consultants to the home and we are convinced that this is a good thing to do. It actually keeps our prices down, as we are able to bundle several CDs together. It also means that we ensure that families have CDs that their children really need — according to their school year, knowledge and ability. Our prices are very reasonable indeed — a family with any number of children pays less than $500 per study year , for maths and English together.
In response to concerns about presentations in the home, by the Australian Institute of Maths, I would like to say that a bad egg doesn’t make the whole industry rotten. Showing a program properly in the home, gives the purchaser the opportunity to make a sound decision. We definitely don’t bludgeon our customers into buying or make unrealistic promises to students who are intellectually challenged.
Yours sincerely,
Mary Sanghvi
Kinetic Education Pty Ltd
This is the biggest problem with in-home sales presentations; these types of unsubstantiated claims and statements can be made left, right and centre and the family doesn’t have a chance to check or research these claims but are then asked to make a decision on the night in front of their children, so they feel that they are bad parents to their children if they don’t sign up.
For Kinetic to suggest their company is the only one who spends money on research and development is absolutely ridiculous! I don’t believe there would be many education companies out there that don’t do research and development!
MathsPOWER has a huge research and development department. It makes up most of our staff!
It took five years for our team of teachers, developers, programmers, proofreaders, etc to create just the Primary MathsPOWER lessons! The high school program took four years and the newest updated version is still being developed at the Year 11-12 levels.
Our English POWER programs are also currently in development. To completely voice and explain every step of the way for children, with complete graphics, animations, highlighting, complete narration, etc for over 1000 lessons each of over 100 pages of programmed info to come together as well as over 20,000 individual questions and activities for children from Kindy to Yr 12, as well as 20,000 worked solutions, plus instant reporting, rewards, etc is definitely not the easy way but the long, time-consuming, hard way, but we took the long, hard road because this is what works — in ALL cases, not just for some learners.
“Write a few pages of computer tutorial and put it on CD with some printed worksheets” … is this what families are told about Maths POWER in the Kinetic in-home sales pitches?
Try 100,000 pages of tutorial, state-of-the-art streaming to put them into bite-sized, engaging lessons, fantastic teachers, up-to-the minute syllabus coverage, more than 20,000 questions and activities (taught how the students will ultimately need to be able to do it in an exam), worked solutions, structured menus and engines with instant reports for parents, games and certificates for kids, interactive; beat the clock; unlimited, randomly generated question speed skills drills, reward puzzles and motivational gifts and of course their personal phone tutor!
We researched various techniques in our Back to the Future Academies of Learning for three years in the late nineties, to find out which approach works best with kids. We wanted MathsPOWER to be the best!
As tempting as it might be to appeal to parents and kids telling them that they need not learn by hearing a teacher explain concepts or that they need not learn by trying for themselves measuring, weighing, drawing, constructing, carrying, trading, or showing working out with pen and paper, the fact of the matter is, that it is what really works and gets results.
It would have been great to not have to put down the 1000+ worksheets, 20,000 plus questions and activities (K-12) that get kids to actively work things out, measure the perimeter of their living room, measure angles with a protractor, create an arc with a compass and the many other activities that cannot be learned without the real tactile experience, (certainly not via a keyboard and mouse).
On top of all that concrete work we also have what the others do: Our interactive keyboard and mouse; beat-the-clock; challenge skills games (with unlimited randomly generated questions).
These were the easiest and least time-consuming part of the program! That’s what blows us away – that companies are sharking families into spending thousands of dollars for them!
The full cost of the Kinetic program still has not come out: Can a family just purchase one year at a time at $500?? Or is it “bundled” together for $3000 or $4000 or is it $5200 that you must purchase all at once and I believe it can be paid off through finance at which % interest rate???? Is it 24% like Mathemagic?
I’ve sat in on these presentations and I’ve seen what happens. Any experienced educator should be able to assess the needs of a student in this day and age through phone, website, email, fax, etc without the need to go into a family’ss home, putting parents on the spot and forcing them to make an emotional decision in the heat of the moment.
Will Kinetic provide families with a full working program to trial for three weeks in the home without any pressure from a salesperson? I highly doubt it, as there are not even fully functioning samples on the web site.
At the end of the day, every company is going to say theirs is the best. Why not leave it to the families to decide by allowing them to trial it for a few weeks. A few minutes in the home demonstrating only the best parts of a program may be enough to convince a family after you’ve gained their trust.
I did research on all the packages including MathsPOWER before I purchased the Mathemagic Computor Tutor for my 2 kids.
I am a maths tutor myself and I can assure all parents out there that the Australian Institute of Mathematics has the best products of them all. All previous comments only discuss cost which misses the point that the Mathemagic Computor Tutor will give your children a better opportunity to achieve success than any other package.
A Current Affair have twice had the Computor Tutor on with a positive show describing it as the Rolles Royce of tutoring.
The cost is not really that high, when you consider that the programs work until all of your kids, even your unborn child graduates Yr 12. This includes free tutoring support line every day of the year with unlimited usage.
The facts about MathsPower above are incorrect. Mathemagic is the biggest in Australia. It is used by over 65,000 students. Cost 13million dollars to initially develop. It is used in schools, used by TAFEs and used by The Australian Defence Force.
My son was in year 10 and was failing year 8 maths, he's been using the computor for one year now and they plan to give one unit of Yr12 maths in Yr11.
And you can trial the computor tutor for 10days, and there is a full money back guarentee if your children do not improve after 1year.
Mathemagic was a life saver for our family and I would have happily paid twice as much.
QED
Hi guys, well my husband was lured into the trap of Mathemagic computer tutor for our 5 children almost 4 years ago and we are still paying for it, at a cost of $6000 + dollars we a one income family had to use their finance, I told my husband that I thought we should think about it and was told that the offer was only available once, if we bought it that night! My husband was persuaded with emotive words such as "really what price can you put on your child's education" see most of your children didn't perform very well on the 10 question test, really its and investment in their future" I remember it well. What they don't tell you is that some of the program requires mouse click answers that are timed and lead to extreme frustration, so much so that after 3 months my children would rather have their teeth pulled than use the programme, what a load of crap. My advise don't believe what you see on Today Tonight etc and steer clear, they just want to make you feel guilty, just like the old Kirby vacuum cleaner salesman that would suck up all the fine dust particles and tell you that if you didn't buy their vacc you were subjecting your family to a life of squalor! Oh and by the way the interest rate is something like 27%
My kids love the computer tutor. The timed tests really make it easier for them to prepare them for a test at school.
And the interest rate we were offered was 18%.
Why are you complaining about fincance??? You're the one who signed the bottom line, you could find your own finance if the rate was too high!
If you could not afford the program you should not have purchased it.
If you can't figure out simple interest on your own then I truly feel sorry for your children and no child is more deserving of the Computer Tutor than your kids.
The computor tutor teaches your kids all about interest rates and interest. But you're kids will not need to worry about finance later in life because you have given them computer tutor so they are GUARENTEED to achieve over 90% so they can be a doctor, pilot, lawyer or engineer.
I'm sure you're kids will buy if for their kids… And they'll be able to pay cash.
I am a teacher and have a friend who got caught by the mathemagic computer tutor people. I've had a long hard look at her program and I am convinced that anyone who is writing anything good on this forum about the mathemagic computer tutor must be one of the rotten reps who work for the disgraceful company.
'Dave' who has left comments above, seems to know a lot of so-called 'facts' about the company 'Australian Institute of Mathematics' for someone who is not working for them!!!! This is sooooo dodgy.
(By the way, they are not an institute at all they are just a sales company!)
I do not work for the company… I know the facts because I bothered to actually do the research before passing judgements based on price!
Seriosuly who would you rather trust… A maths tutor like myself who's children are enrolled in the program, or someone who starts their comment with "I have a friend who…"
They are an Educational Institution, the largest in Australia excluding the private and public schools.
I don't see how the fact that the product is for sale is an issue. All the educational products mentioned above are!
I would rather trust a qualified teacher like myself rather than a mathemagic rep calling himself a "maths tutor". I too, have researched this product in depth and I can tell you the Australian Institute of Mathematics company IS NOT an educational institution! For you to try to convey that message on a forum is utterly disgusting. You people stop at nothing!
As Elaine says, it is "just like the old Kirby vacuum cleaner salesman". I found out through my research that the Institute of Mathematics people ARE the old vacuum cleaner and encyclopedia salesmen that came from South Africa hearing that the next big thing to sell door to door in Australia, was maths education packages! The problem is that they exploit parents based on their emotional attachment to their kids in the heat of the moment and don't give people a chance to research it! The mathemagic computer tutor is not even Australian. It is South African!
Tracey, in your professional opinion what is the best way to help children that are having trouble with their maths?
I am not a sales person for Mathemagic, and I am not a teacher. I am a Mechanical Engineer, and I tutor high school kids maths and my kids use the computor tutor.
You sound like a salesperson for a Mathemagic competitor. Which school do you teach at? I have a suspition that Elaine and Tracey are the same person with a little bit of Felicity in them. I don't see how you can be so passionately negative towards a product you do not even own?
Like with every educational solution it will work for some kids, and not for others. But every family I have referred love the program and their kids have done fantastic just like mine and we all agree it is well worth the money.
…So I don't see why you are getting so worked up about it.
You wouldn't see what I am worked up about! I watched one of my best girlfriends and her husband and children go through such trauma, threats and legal intimidation for 6 months while they fought to get their money back. All that rubbish you said in your earlier post was exactly the same spin she was given. She is not the only one. I have also had a couple of other parents at school say how they got ripped off or nearly got caught. These parents are hard-working, lovely people paying off a program that barely touches the syllabus! You must know that if you truly are a tutor!
I've seen many forums where people are complaining about this scam and there appear to be many people passionately negative about it! The other people complaining about it in this forum are just a few of probably thousands.
As a teacher, if a student is having trouble with maths, I would recommend, as the first step, they see their teacher, school counselor or principal who can offer various resources and advice about options that may suit the particular child's needs.
As if I would tell you what school I work at-so you can come and let my tyres down or harass me? Suffice to say, I work at a wonderful public school in Sydney.
What company do you work at as a Mechanical Engineer?
Why was your son failing Year 8 maths if you're a maths tutor???
In my humble opinion, this is still dodgey. I don't believe anyone who knows anything about the maths syllabus, would recommend mathemagic.
Hey Dave, I can assure you Tracey and I are not the same person, God knows sometimes I wish there were two of me to get things done around here, but alas there is just me, unlike you, none of my children were failing maths at the time we had the Mathemagic Man, who buy the way was South African, (well done Tracey for picking that up), came to our house. My husband, with the purest of intentions and the desire to be a great dad, fell into the emotive trap, my son is top of his year in Maths for year 11, without using the programme and my girls are all doing well also, they haven't needed the programme either! So Dave, if you're a maths tutor, as Tracey says, why does your son need a computer programme, and aren't they putting you out of a job, if the programme is soooooo brilliant?
I am , at this moment trying to extricate a friend from this company, luckily he has till Monday before his ten day cooling off period expires.
The following are actual and the truth-
The rep said he was working for the government & testing maths & english levels of children.
This was free ( true he did not say the program was)
I was present and asked if he was trying to sell something. He did not answer.
Then began the emotive hardsell as outlined in previous comments, I was outside and only listened in and left after half an hour.
Now my friend has a invoice from Ardent of $7997
& a statement from Lombard Card Finance of $8057 @ 19.9% interest rate (this works out at approx $160 a week if paid back in 2 years)
My friend says the agent said about $70 a month.
I am required now to explain what he has signed because he is unable to read.
—– I have contained my ^&^^%#@ Frustration
Jeff you're an idiot, $160 a week paid back in 2 years is over $16000, the computor tutor does not cost that much. don't make up numbers for impact you're as bad as a salesman.
Hi Jeff,
Just so you know, this is the original Tracey here. The last 'Tracey' comment was not me. Most likely a mathemagic rep. They appear to be in damage control. (Probably Dave). Obviously you meant to write 'a month'
The real Tracey
Tracey that is absolutely ridiculous. Just because I like Mathemagic all you can do is make personal attacks on me. This forum should be about features and benefits, but you wouldn’t do that because you know Mathemagic will win.
Tracey, I did not post a comment in your name. You're probably trying to set me up… Look at the times on those messages, you write one at 2:40, then 10min later you realised you made a mistake and wrote another one.
In answer to your previous personal attacks I am an engineer employed by BHP, for the last few years I have spent a lot of time at Roxby and this is why my son needs the computer tutor as I can not give him the individual attention he deserves, I come home usually every second weekend and I can look at the Mathemagic score card, see which topics he is doing, how much time he spends on them and how he is going with it. It is the best, simplest, and cheapest way for me monitor his progress and know that he is achieving to the best of his ability.
As far as your credibility… Any engineer will tell you, teachers are stupid. You don't need a decent mark at school to become a teacher and you can teach maths without studying maths at uni. Most engineering drop outs or those who can't get into engineering turn to teaching.
What level maths do you teach? I challange you to any maths exam and I'll win if thats what it takes to prove I'm not a Mathemagic rep. It's teachers like you that make so many hundreds of thousands of children turn to a tutoring service of some kind. You cause the problem, Mathemagic fixes it.
You just hate Mathemagic because it points out your school systems weaknesses, like each student getting less than 1min of individual attention in maths each day.
The real Dave
I'm sure we all just want what is best for our kids, I came here for information but this page is just crazy. If Mathemagic is the best why do you all care how much it costs? Who cares about interest and stuff, if you can't afford to pay cash then you have to pay interest, it's how the world works. If it weren't for loans millions of people would not have a home! You can't get something for nothing!
I look forward to my free Mathemagic presentation on Thursday.
And what's with your racism towards South Africans??? None of the Mathemagic people I have seen so far have been South African. They are normal people here in Adelaide. I aproached them at the show and the young man was a Uni student doing Maths and Computer Science. Then I asked them to call me to book the free presentation and it was a very polite and well mannered woman on the phone. I'll let you know how the presentation goes.
Hey Jeff,
After I had the big sell from Mathemagics Computer Tutor I saw a thing in the paper about it and I got a number for Consumer Action LAw Centre They give good advice so tell your friend to ring. They'll give you and your friend good advice.
Good Luck MAte
Hey again Jeff
Just found the number for the Consumer Centre for you mate. 1300 881 020
Cheers
Paul
Who's getting worked up and making personal attack now Dave?
Of course I replied 10 mins later because I got an email while I was sitting at my computer to say there was a new comment…just as you do. If you are not a mathemagic rep why are you so worked up? It is so obvious you are a mathemagic rep…you are making it worse for yourself.
Nothing against South Africans at all Lucy, I have a brother-in-law who is South African, who is one of my favourite people of all time! Maths programs coming out of South Africa (such as mathemagic), however, don't follow our syllabus and from what I've heard, the face-to-face emotional sell apparently was big in South Africa before here and a group of salesmen came from there to here and started the so-called 'Australian' Institute of Mathematics. Just pointing out that it is not an Australian educational product as claimed, it is South African. As long as my friend had have been told it was a South African product there would be no problem with that. However, she was after an Australian product that followed the Australian syllabus. She was the lied to and it is the lies that I have a problem with. It was just one lie of many, another was that it covered the syllabus, another was that they were a 'Educational Institute' with government backing.
The real Australian Mathematical Institute puts a warning at the bottom of it's home page to parents to say they have nothing to do with the high-pressure marketing company. See http://www.amsi.org.au
I've been watching this conversation progress… Tracey, what have you brought to this conversation??
- You have a friend that could not afford Mathemagic
- You are apparantly a teacher but you have given no evidence to support this
- You think it's made in South Africa… And therefore it can't work??I urge all people reading this page to look for the facts.
Tracey you are trying to convince you not to get tutoring based purely on her emotions and opinions… Remember you do not actually have any of the programs.
1. The program DOES cover the sylabus… To prove me wrong tell us what bit is not in it. (Remember it is used in over 200 Australian schools and is used for distance education so i'm preety confident on this one)
2. I don't reakon Dave is a sales rep, he's told us quite a bit about himself… But even if he was, do you think he has lied about what the program does? And if so prove it.
Come on Tracey, if you really are a teacher and not a sales rep for a Mathemagic competitor, you should be able to structure an argument a little better.
When I bought the program they left me with a Cancellation form explained how to cancel during my 10 day cooling off period, so I don't see why Paul and Jeff are having heaps of trouble cancelling.
PS. I bet you anything that Tracey is going to acuse me of being a Mathemagic rep based purely on the fact that i'm pro-computer tutor. HAHA
i,m confussed what program do i purchase 4 my 3 children aged 2 7 and 9 can someone help me
Hi Graeme,
My child is using the programs from Kinetic Education, and he is doing really well. The program is Australian, and the lessons are really interactive and fun. I highly recommend it, for Maths and English. The tutors are very helpful too.
I'm fairly shocked at all this bickering which is going on – not surprised you're confused. I tried the MathsPower thing, but I didn't want work-sheets to mark.
Hi All,
Wow, just read through all the comments! I am considering getting Maths Power for my kids because a friend of mine is very happy with the program. She claims her son wouldn't be able to keep up in class (top maths class) without Maths Power. Also, after looking at their website they are very transparent. I did speak to one of their reps over the phone and he was very helpful. My question is directed to Graeme. You stated you tried the Maths Power thing. What did you mean by that and was it just not wanting to do the work sheets that turned you off? Any input by Graeme or anyone else who has tried Maths Power would be appreciated. Graeme, perhaps you could compare Maths Power to Kinetic Education since you've tried both. Also, how much did you pay for Kinetic Education? I did have a look at their website and did speak to someone over the phone but they couldn't give me the actual cost, but mentioned their packages started between $2,500 to $3,000 and on up. Also, has anyone tried Maths Teacher? Thanks all for your time.PJ
PJ, the main difference you will find comparing Maths Power to Kinetic Education and Mathemagic is that Maths Power is a much cheaper program that has not had the same research and development as the other two, it was designed by a husband and wife who made the programs to their interpretation to the curriculum, whereas Kinetic and Mathemagic put a lot more time, money and effort to make the programs universal for all children to understand. A MathsPOWER lesson is just like sitting in class and watching the teacher, and this is a negative for kids so their attitude to learn is low producing little if any improvement, the worksheets are the same.
With kinetic and Mathemagic so much money has gone into making the programs work on all three ways that we learn; visual, auditory, and kinesthetic. MathsPower is not even much cheaper than the others, to tutor a student from reception to yr12 with MathsPower costs $4074.80 and the program is not updated once you have purchased it, so if you get the senior programs for one child, when your younger child reaches that age chances are you will have to pay the $400 per year again. Kinetic and Mathemagic cost only a bit more than this but you get a far better maths tutoring service, curriculum updates, better and bigger programs.
As Felicity explained above MathsPower is struggling to keep up with demand to update their Maths and English programs.
Also be wary if programs like MathsPOWER, being a smaller business there is a good chance they will disappear overnight so you will lose your tutor support, whereas the Australian Institute of Mathematics is a public company so you can be sure it will be around for a long time.
Something that I believe puts Mathemagic ahead of MathsPOWER is the service, when I purchased Mathemagic they came and professionally installed it on all of our computors, then spent an hour with us showing how to use the program and how I can use the score card to monitor my childrems progress. They then rang the tutor support for us in the house to show how it works.
We feel completely comfortable with the tutoring service and get feedback from tutors every month when we email our progress reports.
The Australian Institute of Mathematics products are overall much more polished and professional than MathsPower
My kids tried MathsPower and did not like it. If you want to try MathsPower just download if from a Warez site thats what I did. Only fools pay for MathsPOWER. LOL! btw you cannot download Mathemagic because it has more sophisticated piracy protection.
kkthxbi:)
Elizabeth Burns: "Also be wary if programs like MathsPOWER, being a smaller business there is a good chance they will disappear overnight so you will lose your tutor support, whereas the Australian Institute of Mathematics is a public company so you can be sure it will be around for a long time."
It's true that small businesses can go under but it's also true that big businesses can go under. Being a public company won't change that. Also be aware that the Australian Institute of Mathemathics is an institute in name only. It is just an ordinary commercial company like any other company selling stuff. It has no special links to the government and being an institute in name won't give it any special protection from going under.
Hi Michael,
As you say, there needs to be an investigation by the relevant consumer authorities. In nsw this is underway. The other states will, I'm guessing, follow; as from what I understand, the curriculum is almost the same across all Australian states.
I have contact with the dept of fair trading in nsw.
The information provided here is not classified but I don't want to get involved. I do however feel it's important information seeing as people are asking for
proof of inadequacies of the Mathemagic computer tutor.
Link
I think Samuel, you have forgotten which person you are playing…it's taken you quite a few entries here to even mention your kids tried Maths Power. I think you got mixed up, that was when you were Dave. hehehe I had a look at the warez site you mentioned…you have to join a porn site to join. You are very slimey…I wouldn't believe a word you said.
Allan you are obviously an old man not very familiar with computers. WAREZ is a term used by software pirates use to describe a cracked game or application that is made available over the Internet, usually via FTP/IRC/P2P. I did not mention which site you can get mathsPOWER but isohunt, thepiratebay etc. would be a good start. The fact that you ended up at a porn site is your own misfortune.
And as far as only just mentioning that my kids used it… This is because this page is what made me want to download and try it. At the time of my previous posts they had not tried it.
Oh and yes I MUST be Dave just because I am pro-mathemagic. Idiot
Matt the link does not work. Can't find it anywhere on google either.
Will definitely be doing more research!!! Lucy, click on “here” on Matt’s post and it will come up. When I clicked on the site address it didn’t work for me either. I also found another article against Mathemagic. Take a look at this.
For the moment, I will be staying away from Mathemagic.
Samuel, you act hard core throwing buzz words like FTP,IRC and P2P … in what year were warez downloaded from FTP or IRC?? Next you will say it is available on DirectConnect or Napster?? HAHA, it’s just so sad. Here are some buzz words to describe you; n00b and lamo. By the way, checked a heap of torrent sites and its not available anywhere so what have we learnt in this lesson? Samuel = lamo + stupid + liar. Out.
I actually got it from CommunityNet.
I think the fool who wrote that last post should go back to his myspace.
I work at the Consumer Action Law Centre which is mentioned above. We are a community legal centre in Victoria, funded by Legal Aid and Consumer Affairs. We've provided legal assistance to a number of consumers who have signed up for this software – particularly problems related to the cost, and the selling techniques of some of companies such as the Australian Institute of Mathematics.
Anyone spending this sort of money should do lots of research first – and avoid any pressure to sign up quickly – don't worry – at around $6000 a pop, they'll come back if you want them to!
Victorian consumers can also contact us via email:
advice@consumeraction.org.au. We only provide services to those in Victoria. If you need advice or help because you've signed up, and you're not in Victoria, check the following link for a free service in your state: http://www.afccra.org/counselling.htm
Hi,
I have been reading all your posts and they have given me a lot of insight into what I have indeed gotten myself into. I purchased the Mathematics Computer Tutor for my kids because of the emotional hard sell at a cost of $6500. I feel mislead and gutted. I have lost all my trust in people because of companies like these. It is nothing like it was described, in fact I think my kids would have more fun pulling out there own teeth. Plus nobody at the "institute" is willing to help now they have my money. I have put in a complaint with consumer affairs, but are these people really beatable?
At least I know, I am not alone with these feelings. Thanks guys
I agree with JustPassingBy, I had a look on all the warez sites I know (including the ones given by Samuel) and couldn’t find a thing on that maths power program. The reason I am posting though is to tell you all that when I went to the CNet site (the one mentioned in Samuels last post), not only did I not find maths power as he said I would, I found the Mathemagic program available for download for free! So for everyone here who wants to see what all the fuss is about here is the link: http://www.cnet.com.au/downloads/0,239030384,10524613s,00.htm or just go to http://www.cnet.com.au/downloads/ and search for Mathemagic. I don’t know why people would pay for it when it looks like it’s available for free. Maybe Samuel got confused between maths power and Mathemagic? Or did he just make it up? It is strange that he could get it that wrong (it wasn’t on any of the places he mentioned!).