Mathemagic Computer Tutor
We had a visit today from a salesman for the Australian Institute of Mathematics who demonstrated the company’s Mathemagic computer tutor software for children.
When Juliet told me about the appointment I understood it was a government program to test children at maths, so I was immediately wary and defensive when I learnt it was a commercial product.
I’ve got no opinion on the software. From the demo I would say it clearly has some value and could even be useful. At the quoted price tag of $7530 though (for the complete package) I have no intention of buying it.
Sure, it could be cheaper in the long run than home tutors, and what price do you put on your children’s education? That’s the sales pitch of course and I’m not surprised they were selling strongly in Kalgoorlie where we have a shortage of teachers and high affluence.
I have a few issues though with the whole deal.
Juliet is a soft touch for salespeople, but clearly she misunderstood the initial pitch.
The name “Australian Institute of Mathematics” is legitimate but misleading in my view. For starters, it implies a not-for-profit status.
The cost is huge for the target market of middle-income families. For that investment you get some software and backup from telephone tutors. I could buy all the kids computers for that money, running Windows Vista and a full suite of programs.
I also don’t like being asked to pay that amount upfront without a trial. There should be an introductory module for kids to try. If they liked it and showed progress I might be inclined to consider buying it.
And as with every product purchase, I like to make comparisons.
It turns out there is much cheaper software available called Maths Power. Their site includes a warning for parents about other operators. This section was interesting:
Beware of sales organisations that have official sounding words as part of their name. These words give the impression of some sort of connection to official bodies or places of higher learning. Unfortunately, there is no law preventing sales companies from using the terms in their names to give parents the impression that they are in some way an official body.
I could buy Maths Power for $750, or 10 percent of Mathemagic’s cost.
For all I know it might only be 10 percent as good, but without testing both of them I have no way of knowing.
As it stands I am simply confused and know only that I won’t be buying Mathemagic. Comment here.
Tags: education, Kids, mathemagic, tuition
Ok guys just to tidy this up…
1. I did not get it from a torrent site, I got it from CommunityNet. I mentioned those torrent sites would be a good start, but I did not say it was there.
2. Joanne CommunityNet is different from CNET. CommunityNet is an Adelaide filesharing network that allows me to connect to other computers linked to the same exchange. http://www.adam.com.au/communitynet/
3. The Mathemagic program available from CNET is American and completely different from the Australian Institute of Mathematics products and is in no way related to them.
Samuel, is it possible for you to upload Mathemagic to a file uploading site and tell me the link? And, by the way, what versions of Mathemagics do you have?
–Adrian
Adrian, I did not download Mathemagic, I purchased it. It is MathsPOWER that I got from CommunityNet.
My kids are using the Primary, Senior and also English packages from Mathemagic. And no I will not upload it for you I suggest you buy it so that you can make use of the phone tutor support. It is worth the money.
Attn: Michael Gorey.
I think there is a problem with this page, when you submit a comment it goes to an error page, I've tried it on a few computers now. Maybe look into it? Cheers
Hi, I am the Director of Back to the Future Education-MathsPOWER. I’m not sure how “Elizabeth Burns” would know how much time and money my company or other separate companies spend on their products, especially as we don’t have an “Elizabeth Burns” ever registered with us and contrary to another nonsense post, we have highly sophisticated security and our program is not available anywhere for download. There have been some audaciously false and misleading statements made here about our product and company and I would like to set the facts straight. THE FACTS: We are in our 10th year of operation and whilst we have a huge demand we are continually expanding to embrace that demand. We began our research in 1994, commenced our business in 1998 and then became an incorporated company in 2000. (Our research continues to this day and will continue into the future, as does our development of products and services). True, my wife and I are a “husband and wife team” as are any married couple but we are experienced teachers who head a greater team of dedicated teachers, programmers, IT department, Research Department, Development Team, Tutor Support Department, Administration and so on. My wife and I insist on being involved in the business, as education of children is our life work and passion and as teachers and parents we wish to ensure that every child enrolled with us receives full attention. Our product is the Leading Maths Program in Australia, which is now highly sought after internationally. We have more students than any of our competitors claim to have but we stopped publishing how many students we have on our website because every time we updated it, the very next day, some of our competitors would always claim to have 5 000 more. Despite our growth, we will always ensure we provide personal, ‘family’ service, as we believe this is one of the reasons our students achieve such a rapid rate of success. Our programs follow Australian syllabi to the ‘T’ and for one to suggest it is ‘our interpretation’ of the syllabus is laughable from any teacher’s perspective. The syllabi contain specific sets of strict guidelines as to what is to be included in every single lesson, unit and strand of mathematics. We headed a team of extremely experienced and qualified teachers from the outset with the vision to make it the most comprehensive syllabus software program ever made, adhering to every step of the syllabus! As teachers, we believe our program is the only one that meets all of these requirements and covers every single lesson. One of these important requirements is the element of handwritten work for students. In fact, teachers describe our program as more than a tutor program but a complete “teaching program”. One of the reasons a program should have activities other than simply keyboard and mouse clicks is for kinesthetic learning. Ours has complete visual and auditory explanations on every lesson. As teachers, we know that any computer program that only has keyboard and mouse clicks without other worksheet activities, does not satisfy all the kinesthetic learning requirements! Children need to be able to demonstrate with pen, paper, ruler, protractors, compasses, etc., understanding, particularly in mathematics, of the concept, process, working-out and setting out without on-screen prompting. This is, after all, what is required of them in school exams. We allow families to purchase our programs on a yearly module basis at an affordable price of $199 per yearly module with a one-off $55 family registration. If the programs are good enough the families will come back each year. If they are not good enough – we don’t deserve to be in business. If a family ever needs several yearly modules we cap the price at $999 for 6 modules ($166.50 per module) allowing a discount for large families. We also allow all families to pay off over time without any extra charges or interest at all! In all our years, we have never had a single legal issue with any customer whatsoever -because we offer a 100% money-back guarantee. We even go one step further and offer a full working trial of the program with the option to send it back, no questions asked. We do this because we know kids like it, we know it works and it does work because we put the work and research into it and tested various versions on hundreds of students before releasing it to the general public. We believe we offer the most up-to-date, syllabus compliant, comprehensive, relevant and user-friendly product on the market (with curriculum updates) at a fraction of the price. Needless to say, some competitors don’t like us. The only justification they can give for the difference in price is to claim that our product is “cheaper”…what else can they do? We cannot speak for other companies as to how much money they have spent on their products, as I am not privy to their financial records (just as no-one is privy to ours-despite the bizarre claims). However, I do urge all parents reading this forum to research any program, not believe hear-say in a forum where people can use false names and say anything, but by TRIALING each one with your child, or at the very least seek a complete lesson list (not just topics) from the company for your child’s school grade/ year and ask your child’s teacher if it complies with the syllabus. Our complete lesson lists are on our web site at: http://www.mathspower.com.au/Pages/SampleLessons.asp We have also provided a Comparison document that we believe outlines the differences between all mathematics help/software/tuition options. It is available also on our website at: http://www.mathspower.com.au/2004/ProgramComparison.asp If anyone has further questions or wishes to verify anything, I am happy to take your call on 1300 133 831 or 1300-1-MATHS. Regards, Anthony Tannous http://www.mathspower.com.au
Samuel, I don't really need the Phone Tutor, I just need the software. If that could be done it would be very appreciated.
This has been a very interesting topic to follow indeed. Just to qualify, I am an independent consultant for Kinetic Education. I too have seen the Mathemagic demonstration and program both before joining the industry and again around 12 months later. I too researched the various companies offering home tutoring firstly as a consumer looking for something to help my child. I was told at both presentations that the Mathemagic program followed the Australian curriculum and was also updated every 6 months in line with the curriculum. During the assessment stage, my daughter (who was in Kindy at the time) scored 2/10 from the questionnaire and we were advised that all she required was a little and the consultant recommended the year 3 – 12 package at the very low price of $5995 or $55 per week. When we advised him that was a little out of our budget and asked if there was a lesser priced option, he closed up his lap top, said "Well I guess you know what's best for your child" and left.
2nd time around, we went through the same process, this my daughter scored a healthy 8/10 and we were then advised that she clearly had gaps and would ultimately suffer if we didn't attend to it quickly. Just one easy payment of $7590 would see us right and that would allow her to go all the way back to Kindy and fill in the 2 question gap she clearly had and cater for all her maths and English needs through to year 12.
Yes I found this disturbing and not long after enrolling my daughter with Kinetic I had an opportunity to come on board as a consultant. I chose to do so because I believed the program to be superior to its counterpart and the support provided considerably more accessible and realistic.
As a consultant, I know I am not in the business of just selling computer software. After assessing the needs of each family I meet they are offered an opportunity to enrol their children with us for the subjects and levels they require. The company certainly does not have a size fits all policy and nor do we as consultants. I am proud to say that the lesson structure does indeed follow that which my daughter is learning in school and I can see first hand the benefit she and the many families that have enrolled through myself are getting. Yes the price tag may appear to be large but let's look at it logically. Let's say you had have just 1 child in Kindy and you make the commitment to enrol through to year 12 (not that you would have to with us but anyway). Paid in full at the commencement of the enrolment the cost is equal to less than $500 per school year. How many hours of tutoring can be bought for $500? And it does not change if you have 1 or 5 children at school.Of course, not every family is in a position to fund the enrolment fee in full and as such a finance option is also offered. No different to the finance many people use when purchasing furniture or that very important big screen TV. The interest rates are commensurate to general retail lending and if desired the client has the option to refinance through their own source. Most families are better positioned to extend themselves to around $45 per week to help all their kids with maths & English versus $30 – $45 per child, per subject per week through traditional tutoring. And that's only once per week as opposed to having help available on the home computer 24/7 and a personal tutor available via telephone 4 days per week with unlimited access. You do the math!
Just curious Enno, what is your commission from each sale? Sounds like yours costs same as Mathemagic, but you didn't explain what makes your program better (or worse)
I wasn't aware that we were discussing personal income issues here so I'll leave that between myself and my accountant. Comparatively the costs are not the same and per my previous post and there are various packages available subject to the needs of the individual family.
During the assessment stage, my daughter (who was in Kindy at the time) scored 2/10 from the questionnaire and we were advised that all she required was a little and the consultant recommended the year 3 – 12 package at the very low price of $5995 or $55 per week.
Let's say you had have just 1 child in Kindy and you make the commitment to enrol through to year 12 (not that you would have to with us but anyway). Paid in full at the commencement of the enrolment the cost is equal to less than $500 per school year.
AIM quoted $7590 for K – 12….
Trust that answers the question.
not really. So yours costs $6000 as opposed to Mathemagic $7590. But that includes English aswell, and tutoring monday-friday, instead of your 4days a week. Plus you havent explained if it is a better or worse product. Price is insignificant if one is better than the other. This is why so many families enrol with the Australian Institute of Mathematics instead of MathsPOWER
alex,
what makes you say more families enrol with Australian Institute of Mathematics? I think you'll find it is the other way around!
Alex, I suggest you read both my posts again. Your maths is correct and just so you are aware, we also cover full English from K – Year 12.
As far as the Mathemagic software is concerned it is very well written, very colourful and has a great user interface from what I have seen. I'd suggest it to anyone who has children that attend school in South Africa!
Hey,
i have been following this blog for the last few weeks and its really interesting to see who is who… i can tell the reps from both AIM an KINETIC from a mile off, why??? because i am one….
If you all want the facts here they are….
The Australian Institute Of Maths work on a sales cycle as do all sales… Rapport, Need, Product and close, they spend the first 25-30 mins building trust so that you think that they are credible, when really a week worth of training, an easy NSW test and a whole lot of false stats are all we’re taught… then they pack on the need… or “HOT BUTTONS” as they call them… these are your emotional reasons to buy the product….
The program itself is second rate and they build it up more with a 4 year old a current affair video… but not before the “QUALIFIER” which is:
Now john/jenny if i can just ask you one last favour, if you like the program and agree that its something you can afford, then thats great we can have it installed immediately, if not, just say no thanks its not for me; you see if people ask for a glossy brochure or a card, we all know that its a polite way of saying no, so if i’m honest and upfront with you, will you be the same with me and just give me a straight yes or no???
This is so you both agree that you’ll make a decision on the noght… and don’t be fooled by the.. oh we’re only in the area for the next 2 days… the reps travel hours to see different families from all across the state, so the’re always in the area….
Then they show you a program and make sure you like it though its really crap… they build up the price on the software from the tutor support, but honestly no one uses it… trust me…
the program itself costs the bosses about $2500 to buy, then we as consultants get paid per disk package…
Single : $500
Double: $550
Harvard (3 disk) $600
4 Disk $700
all 5 are $800
Then as you make more sales the rates increase….
do the maths guys…..
$6490 for a 3 disk pack
-$ 600 sales commissions
-$2500 Buy price
$3390 profit per sale, and most offices get 30-50 sales per week….
so there making some people very rich, then they give us incentives like.. make 36 sales in 3 months and we’ll take you on a holiday or VIP as they call them… some examples are Tahiti, Hawaii, Thailand, and Hamilton Island…. You really think that money goes towards tutors???
So dont bother with them, give your kids the attention they need, help them with their maths, love them and be a parent…
dont put yourself into financial hardship to make some-one rich….
All my bosses are, are the old KIRBY salesman, the Water purifier sales man, Alarm Salesman, and Insurance sales man…
Dont blame the consultant…. blame the institute……
Oh and if someone doesn’t believe i’m actually a rep…. call my bluff and i’ll post the whole SCRIPT on this blog so that everyone will know what a SCAM we actually do….. give them a chance!!!!!!
Love You All…..
Sorry Lucy.
Been on holidays and have only just accessed my emails. Interesting stuff transpiring here huh?
Anyway, don’t know how I mucked up that link to the mathemagic complaint. Here it is again anyhow.
Tori,
Put in a formal complaint submission and stand your ground. Accept nothing less than all your money back if you were told it covers the curriculum or syllabus. As you can see from the link, it leaves a lot to be desired.
Good luck.
Matt
Wow, this has been fantastic reading … apart from the occasional personal attack.
My partner and I were approached by a Mathemagic sales rep last night, after a “telephone survey”, which is ok, I knew who they were right from the beginning. I have been interested in the Mathemagic Computer Tutor program for some time. My son is not struggling a great deal at school, although this year has been tough on him due to an ongoing bullying issue. Having had to deal with the school on a regular basis, my partner and I have realised that the public school system is never going to be enough to see him through adequately to year 12. We know we need to find other options to support him through his education, and we also realise this is never going to be cheap.
This debate has given me some great leads to other options and information. I have every intention of calling DOCEP and following up all links provided. Thanks to everyone who gave information (biased or otherwise). I have rung the Mathemagic people and told them I would not be filling in any forms or finance agreements until I had done my research and decided what was the best option for my son.
Thankfully my partner is highly cynical and questioned the sales rep quite extensively … being the soft touch that I am, I would have signed on the spot.
I have purchased the software. After I bought the product, the salesman called me saying he would come to my house to see how my children were going with the software. However, he has never turn up. Besides that, I do agree the comments above that it’s far too expersive.
It’ worth mentioning that MathsPower is not an interactive software – but CDs which print out worksheets. The only "interactivity" is students typing their supposed scores into a reporting program. So comparing it with any interactive software is quite irrelevant.
The Mathematic computer tutor is s**t , i have been using it for a year now it helped me out the first few months but then it just got confusing i felt it was kinda rushed cause it didn’t explain alot of the stuff that was in the f***g program, it kinda p**d me off cause it seemed pretty dear me and my bro are on it and my mum says she paid over 5000$ for us and when i was there at the time of the in house trial stuff they told me to sign a contract saying that i had to agree to do it 3-4 times a week otherwise i break a contract. Well it’s been a year now and me and my bro have broken the contract my mum doesn’t really care about getting the money back she only cares if the program works, and seriously i cbf, it’s s**t & it ain’t helping me much anymore. & sure they have the phone tutor s**t but i really think that’s useless, they should have more help & info in the program not the phone tutoring.
Hey has anyone dealt with CAMI educational, Advanced learning power or Maths and excellence Learning Pty Ltd?????? They claim to do 80% of there business through word of mouth.
I’ve tried to research them on the internet however this is the closest things I have found about a forum about educational software/tutoring in Australia. They claim to have been in Australia for about 8 years now.
However, after reading all the comments they seem very similar to the Mathmagic program!!!! (both are programs that were on closer inspection started in South Africa )
Recently, I replied to a job advertised for TRAINEE MANAGER in the paper, for a company that was setting up an office in my hometown. I got the job along with everyone else who applied… It was to be a sales person for ADVANCED LEARNING POWER, which sells an interactive educational product called CAMI (computer aided mathmatical intructions) that covers math, reading and perceptual skills as well as a telephone tutor support system (that helps with all subjects except languages and religious studies) from 4pm until 8pm Monday to Friday and they say they tailor the program to meet the needs of the student and the student does 30 mins x 3 a week or 15 mins a day and it last from prep to grade 1 to 12 or until your last child finishes grade 12.
I thought the product was great and it could really help children, but I had many doubts because they demanded that people sign up then and there at the ‘appointments’ and they were encouraged to do a finance plan without the parents first researching alternative option or thinking about it thoroughly.
I was supposed to go to people house and say a memorised sales pitich in which I would give the children an assessement (that we were to send to the Mathmatical Association of Australia) and conduct a parent interview, however this was all to really to lead up to a demonstration of the product and finally to do a walk out close.
I didn’t feel comfortable going to peoples house and doing this so I quit after my third time, because the families thought I was from the Mathematical association of Australia or a government body. Or they thought we were there about the competition to win a Computer plus Math system. I didn’t agree with the way ADVANCED LEARNING POWER (CAMI education/ maths and excellence learning) are running their business.
Also, I didn’t feel comfortable about saying the sales story that contained stories about good and bad parents and a story about the Dad who was a refrigeration mechanic who left school at year 9 and who employer is now hiring year 12 apprentice with intermediate Maths. …and so on.
Anyway, they also do a Lombard financing form and the cost of the product is about 8000 dollars ($$$7940) (however it can be reduced to 6000 dollars) The interest rate is about 19%) They say it is about 50 a week and paid of within 4 years.
Check out the websites for Cami educational australia and Maths and Learning Excellence pty ltd. They are both owned by the same man, and sell the same product. However one website claims to have 600 000 students, another says 750.000 students and we were told to say 800 000 students worldwide.
They also claim to have 7 offices in VIC, 6 in OLD, 2 in NT, SA 4, WA 3, TAS 2. However, they are just in the process of setting the office up.
All the people who started training with me have since quit.
They definately play on parents emotions and concerns to sell there products, and the sales people are performing under commision. They also try to use the lure of earning lots of money to get people to become sales person. I’m really passionate about children’s education however I realised they are really about making money, when the sales staff asked a successfuls sales person ’so how did you slay your dragon??’
Is it a kind of pyramid selling if these companies demand upfront fees?
I just want families to be more aware when they let people in there house for so called “assessment” that they are actually there to sell something.
Good onya Michael Gorey for setting up a forum for discussing the Mathmagic Tutor program.
If anyone has heard of or used Cami educational products I would love to hear your comments.
By the way, Isn’ t the Australian institute of Mathematics (australian mathematical association?) a Private company that are currently setting up franchises around australia to sell Mathmagic programs to families.
I read your comments and disagree fully with them. I bought the program for my nieces and have found the program fantastic. I am happpy that the salesperson convinced me to buy the program as i would not have walked into a shop and bought it.
I think you were probably not a convincing salesperson and that is why you did not like the company.
No-one forced you to work there, you chose to work there and did not make the grade.
Hi Roger
Thank you for your reply to my email.
How long have your nieces been using CAMI and tutor support service?
I think that it is fabulous that you have brought the package for your nieces. That’s very generous of you. I think CAMI reader, CAMI maths, and CAMI perceptual as well as the Tutor ( Teacher??) support service and constant feed backs would definately give students an academic advantage and help them with their studies- if they made use of it. As well as improve their self esteem about education and give them the right kind of challenge that they need on an individual level. In addition, I would even consider purchasing the Educational package for my own children when I have them.
I completely agree with you that I would not make a convincing sales person because I didn’t feel comfortable with winning people trust and building rapport with people with the ulterior motive of selling them something. Especially something that cost up to 8000 dollars without the parents having time to think about it or even having time to look at alternatives and so on, even if it is something that would definately be of benefit to their childs education and possible future.
It was my decision to quit after about 2 weeks of training and about 5 appointments because of the following reasons. I was under no obligation because I hadn’t signed any contracts with the company.
a) the families who I visited were under the impression that I was representing some government body to do assessments on their children. We were trained to do assessments and do a parents interview and children’s interview, however these were used to find out the needs of the parent to help us personalise the sales pitch in order to sell it to the families.
b) Half of the parents and children, I visited, thought I was there because they were going to win a computer in a compettition they had entered.
c) Personally, I wasn’t comfortable saying the numerous stories in the sales pitch such as “recently I met a mechanic who had dropped out in yr 9. He has been doing his trade for 20 years or more. He left school at Yr 9 and has been doing his trade for 20 years or so. However he was telling his employer is hiring first year apprentices and requires them to have a minumum Yr 12 intermediate Maths. Because now they have to do a mini electronics course. It’s so different now” I could’t say these stories because to me it was the same as lying because I had never interviewed a mechanic and so on.
d) I felt that, if I were to continue with the work there eventually would be a conflict of interest. I’m very passionate about education and I think all children should get a great education. However, I realised it was more about making money when the professional sales people who were training us, asked the other sales person (who had made a successful sale the day before) “How did you slay your dragon?”. Personally, I didn’t want to manipulate people-even if it was to benefit their childrens education -in order to make money for myself.
f) My husband, family and friends were in the opinion that this company were “SHARKS” but they have a very prejudice and negative attitude towards any form of door to door sales.
In my own opinion, I found my brief episode of Educational sales-training an eye-opener into the world of sales. Even though I didn’t get paid for doing any of the training I found it a great experience. Something that I’m not bitter because I didn’t make the grade. I learnt something about myself that I’m not a sales person because I’m not someone who is motivated by money or comfortable with manipulating people.
But ……………..I’m not judging the people who sell the product. The young sales person who taught the training was a hard working, really happy and positive person and the world needs more positive and highly motivated people.
However, apart from the above, I guess my issues are generally with the backdoor ways these companies get into peoples homes- other than word of mouth. In the end, I know that it is completely in the hands of the parents if they choose to buy something from a salesperson.
However, I don’t think families should be put under pressure to buy a product then and there on the spot (even if they have 10 days cooling off period). I think families as a consumer have the right to ask the salesperson to come back to their home again after they have had time to think about it, research other options and calculate the full amount they would eventually be paying (i.e with interest ) that they would pay if they choose to go on a payment plan and so on.
However, I think everyone who has been following this forum should read the news article published in the SYDNEY MORNING HERALD Called “DO THE MATH BEFORE YOU SIGN UP” in October 2007.
I don’t intend to knock the company I did some training for but I am knocking the ways the sales world works.
On the other hand, I think CAMI education and related distributers policy of WORD OF MOUTH IS GREAT. So I think you should tell as many people as you can how great the product is and how it is helping your nieces with their education- so that they eventually have a good enought reputation so they don’t have to use ‘win a computer competitions’ or use ‘telemarketers’ to get make appointments with families to get into their houses.
Also from my time doing the training, it seems that the company I dealt with have a really good customer service policy and do try to help out families as much as they can once they have purchased the Educational package. For example if the children”s parents are separated they’ll install the product in both homes and so on. And the tutors also help with other subjects and so on …..
However, I think all parents should read the issues raised at the Australian Tutoring association websites and the NSW fairtrading website before they choose which tutoring company is the best for their children
Check out the Australian Tutoring Association http://www.ata.edu.au Consumer information articles
Or the Fairtrading http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au article about Tutoring tips for parents
Roger, I hope that I could communicate my message clear enough.
The main purpose I wrote the email was to generate some healthy internet discussion about CAMI educational products, because I haven’t been about to find any forums about them on the internet.
I just want parents and families to make an informed decisions so aware that there are other options out there available to them. They would have to make up their own mind whether CAMI educational program or Mathemagic computor tutor or Mathspower or Kinetic education or other Tutor services would be best suited for their child’s education as well as price range. Because I feel if I were a parent- if I should purchase say CAMI and found that it didn’t suit my child after 1 year, it is going to be very hard for me to get my money back. Or let’s say I used Mathemagic, but then latter on I found that CAMI was a much better system- I’m not going to pay out XXX dollars for another Computer tutor program. Am I??? I’m probably never going to use a one-to -one tutor if I have purchased an expensive educational tool???
I don’t work for this company and I’m not one of their PR reps or marketing people, but If anyone out there in cyber world is interested in learning about CAMI more please check out the many websites they have ….
Website that advertise CAMI in Australia are the following
http://www.camiweb.com or http://www.cami.com.au or http://www.aiewa.com.au
http://www.orangeeducation.com.au/perceptual.html or you can go to http://www.orangeeducation.com.au to check out Mathemagic stuff
http://www.learnmaths.com.au
or http://www.future4kids.com.au (this one shows you pictures of the program)
or you can check out the numerous websites around the world that talk about CAMI. I really recommend the Indian CAMI website, because it explains the program CAMI uses indepths. Please go to http://www.speedmaths.in/resources.html
Cheers, Jenny
Has any one had experience with the Kinetic tutor program? please let me here your thoughts.
Hi,  my children have used the CAMI software for over 3 years and I must say i have not experienced what you have commented about on the Blog. The software is expensive but i believe my two children have reaped more than enough benefit for the $5495 i paid. The program is extensive and the tutors at the centre are all very helpful. The reporting and tutor service has been exceptional and I have many friends whose children use it. I must say the friends whose kids use the Mathemagic program are not happy but i guess you need to do the research before you buy. I got the company to come to my house 4 times before i made the decision and also got a few referrals before making the decision.Â
i must say i am not amazed that you have not found anything bad about CAMI on the internet because they are a below the radar company. I only found them through a friend otherwise i would have bought mathemagic.
Guys after reading through these comments i couldn’t feel more insulted. Most of these post refer to people who have bought Mathemagic or CAMI as people who have being lied to and tricked.
In Australia there is well over 88,000 familys using mathemagic and i’m not sure of cami figures but still alot.
If you cannot afford the program (which is not just pocket change) then you have the option like most things in life to say no.
And for those of you who do wanna do the math just sit down and work out how much a in home tutor would be. A close friend of mine has spent over $12000 at fruition tutors in 18 months yet his daughter is still in the middle of the class. I was told mathemagic offer a 12month change of mind period in which time if the kids are using the program and are not getting results that AIM would refund the money they spent back towards further tutoring.
I own neither mathemagic nor cami but i encourage familys with kids struggling to at least look at the programs and listen to how they work, rather then reading forums.
I guess what annoyed me was, i was reading these posts and the further i read the more it sounded like a sales pitch to buy other programs.
I do agree, this whole blog seems tohave been written to promote Maths Power who i believe is the reason for all the problems in the industry. They are creating themselves to be "holier than thou" where in fact they sell cheap software for a cheap price. I reckon someone should get an independant assessor (not one chosen by Maths Power only) to evaluate the different software (Kinetic, Mathemagic, Maths Power, C.A.M.I and whatever else is available in the market.) I reckon that Maths Power would find that it is an inferior product and instead of wasting time bagging other software they should spend time improving their software.Â
I agree software is expensive but i recknon if you looked at these companies balance sheets, you would see they do not make as much money as people think as a lot of money goes into development and marketing.Â
What a sleazy industry. It appears to me that this blog is a place where salespeople who are used to being able to rip parents off (but now can’t as the world wide web has these tactics exposed) come to defend, justify and cover up and pretend to be parents (for example Michael the so called visitor above, how come they always seem to know supposed facts and figures about these companies? Do they think we the public can’t see through sales talk?) It appears that the Mathspower one is the only one prepared to put their program where their mouth is and give people a trial and give a full account of their product on their site. It appears to me that Mathspower must be a real threat to these other companies as it appears to be superior yet reasonably priced. I wonder if some of the other companies would be prepared to show their programs to an independent assessor as they seem to be reluctant to even showcase their work on their own websites!!! Maybe you could organise such an independent assessment Michael Gorey???
Anne, i agree it is sleazy industry but no different to the mortgage, 2nd hand car, insurance and banking industry.
My children use one of the expensive programs which i wont mention (not mathemagic) and they are pleased with it and I have seen an improvement. I am in sales (did my research first) so i had decided to buy before the representative even came to my house but i must admit the program is very good.
I think that you get what you pay for so I would stay away from cheaper products but that is just me.
I’ve just modified an admin setting on my site to hold all comments for moderation while I’m on holiday.
I noticed that three recent comments (Ryan, Roger and William) all came from the same IP address.
That suggests they are either the same person, live together or work together. The location is in Sydney, according to this service.
We are all famiy friends who are together on holidy and came across this website. Our children all use the program and felt we would add our pennys worth to this forum. I just do not like seeing unfair criticism given when it is not always deserved. It is clear that someonehas an axe to grind with mathemagic and I think it is unfair even though my (an my friends) children use another program.
In reguards to maths power being to problem i don’t agree. If it is such a good program and costs so little i’m very interested to find out just how they can develop something as good for such a low price. Apparently CAMI and mathemagic both cost over 60million dollors to design. If maths power is as good they must find it really hard to make any form of profit. In saying that from a consumers point of view it seems to be good, and it cost ju
Mmm… there was a story about this company on ‘A Current Affair’ I was glad I refused to fill in a book for my kids.
Hi,
@ Samuel..
MathsPOWER is on no P2P or Torrent site that I could find (and i tried for ages), so anyone else don’t bother.
OR if you do find it, Would you mind posting the link or atleast telling me where to find it?
thanks
Also, there are several versions so Year 11 + 12 Advanced or Extension 1 would be preferred.
Oh crap we just signed up for the whole 5 programs. Will be calling to cancel tomorrow – hopefully we don’t have any hassles.
can someone please help me to decide which software to buy, i am very confused with what you’ve written
thanks
Beware of any one selling the Mathemagic program. The program does not work. I will take these people to court and win and I think everyone else should as well. I have found some vital flaws in their "contract" and can help anyone in the same boat as we are. My email is jen28382@bigpond.net.au
This post is getting too long, so I am closing comments, which are getting repetitive. I’ve opened a forum post for anyone who wants to continue the discussion.