A scene from the television version of Cloudstreet.
Cloudstreet by Tim Winton is the best Australian novel I’ve read in several years. I preface that by saying I don’t read many Australian novels, having been disappointed in the past and wishing to “travel” through my reading.
That said, Winton’s Western Australian setting is unique enough for me to enjoy the experience and his writing is simply superb.
The book traces the fortunes and misfortunes of two rural families who move to the big smoke of Perth after different tragedies. Chronic gambler and loser Sam Pickles lost one hand in a boating accident, while the vivacious favorite son in the Lamb family, named Fish, became retarded after nearly drowning. The time setting is over two decades from 1945.
The relevance of the timeframe is that Sam inherited a large house in Perth, with a sensible covenant that he couldn’t sell it for 20 years. Everyone expected him to sell the house when the time came to cover his gambling debts.
The Pickles need money and rent out half the house to the Lambs. It’s literally split down the middle, including the back yard.
The Lambs are industrious and teetotal. The Pickles are mostly lazy and the mother, Dolly, is an alcoholic. The Lambs convert their front room into a general store and although they live poor, accumulate money and do well for themselves in their own eccentric way.
The families gradually become closer together over time. The marriage of Rose Pickles to Quick Lamb consolidates the union.
A strength of this novel is Winton’s clever development of characters and their sensitive portrayal, including the less desirable ones. Even the minor players have personalities that become likeable. The retarded boy, Fish, commands love as much as pity.
There is much humor. Sam’s philosophy in life is to believe in the “shifting shadow” of luck. He wins rarely and becomes resigned to handing over his salary from the Mint each week to the bookies. A pig given to the Lambs for Christmas fare becomes a pet and “talks” to Fish.
Part of the appeal of this book for me was the credibility of the characters; their language and idiosyncrasies. I saw some of my father’s family from the same era in both families.
Winton writes with a tight narrative, which always flows logically and in a captivating way that teases you into turning the next page.
His use of dreams and a cameo “Blackfella” confused me a little, but didn’t distract from the overall mood. I understood the imagery of a resident ghost in the house. She represented the spirit of the home, which was initially dark and gloomy. She disappeared when Rose and Quick created a window in the library and moved in with their baby Harry, thereby bringing the families together in love and happiness.
The cover of this book describes it as a “modern Australian classic”. I have to agree.
×0
Freud once said:
“Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”
In a more relevant sense:
Sometimes a pig is just a pig.
End of discussion.
sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
but cigars do not possess life and the posibility of them being more then a hunk of tar cannot exist.
The pig is the shifty shadow. he is the devil, he is the one working conversion. He is a piece of Tim Winton’s work,
and since when does Winton do something that is JUST a cigar.
the non-realistic events actually happened in the novel, they weren’t imaginary, they were there to help you better percieve the difference between the real 1940′s to 60′s and that time period that Winton tried to create.
All you people, you need to see that its a great Australian novel because an australian man has subverted the genertic conventions of a typical novel and written purely about TRUE events that occured in this time. He is great, you DON’T need to read it more then once. If you do i suggest maybe a book more your speed like a pop-up book or a book containing 5 words and a different baby animal each page.
Tim Winton’s literacy is amazing. I’m 16 and I’ve read it a million times and still find it breath-taking, all you haters….. stick to your Twilight shit.
In an interview Tim Winton said he merely put the pig in their to get around writers block and was astounded at the symbolism put behind it. ‘Sometime a cigar is just a cigar’
YOU ARE ALL MAD
I personally thought Cloudstreet was an interesting book, one that I enjoyed quite a lot. I was just wondering if anybody had an opinion on the clearly non-realistic events i.e. Quick glowing, the 'jitterbugging' spirits etc. etc. and how they relate to your reading of the text.
For me to properly make meaning I was forced to conclude that this text was not meant to be a realistic portrayal of life in 1940s/50s/60s Perth, but rather a commentary on themes such as the importance of family and place.
You have all amused me so much. Winton's "Cloudstreet" is in my personal opinion lacking many qualities a universal timeless masterpiece consists of, is such a thing is truly obtainable. William Scholl, your comments are truly hilarious. First of all, life is no adventure, it is a sickness cast upon the evil of this world by black depths who write punishment in the blood of others. Second of all, I have also experienced the misery of others in Trivandrum, India, and my conclusions are that their are no miseries at all. These people are in Heavenly bliss. "Cloudstreet" is merely a metaphor of such life in a formation were the sick of our society can relate. "Cloudstreet" frames the sickly society that you are all stuck in, even you too William. If I was a smarter man I would not have posted this.
There is no real plot to it.
So why is it called the Great Australian NOVEL?
Its just a long winding history insight.
Tim Winton,
Not The Best WA Writer.
well…i thought it was brillant
i really enjoyed reading it!
Clearly those of you who keep saying this book is shit and lacks plot cannot see past the literal levels. This book os so full of subverted plot you cant possibly catch on to it all without reading it a number of times and critically analysing it through a number of readings. It annoys me that people just say its shit when clearly they arent using their brains. Stop abusing tim winton to vent your own frustration and lacking understanding of a very deep book.
y should u have to read it more than once to get it. whats the point of that
Well, in your case, it might help you learn how to read and write proper English.
i reckon his editor should have like cut out the first few chapters?
its so boring, there are too many trifle details that don’t build up to the plot and the magical realism in the book is stupid..
a talking pig? utterly random.
and timmy himself has said that he didnt use the pig as a technique! he claims none of the stuff in his books are literary devices!
the characters are crude and utterly lame (esp the blackfella).
too many characters! the picles family is so big i almost forgot there was a ted until the part he died..
but yeah there’e some good points such as the circular narrative which he managed SOMEHOW to pull off, the symbolism of the house and river..
thinks that abt it lol
THEY SHOULD JUST CUT THE BOOK OUT. ITS not worth studying during schools days because there’re so many pages its insane.
But the Lamb family is bigger than the Pickles family…. :S
I think that some of the posts on this are really unfair. The ones saying that this book is not bad are not very true. I am sure I speak on behalf on many HSC Advanced English students who possess more than 10 brain cells between them and their teachers when I say that this novel, no wait not a novel, this dead tree has some dignity.
The concept of a talking pig is as useful as windscreen wipers on a submarine. Although it adds an element of humour and bacon there is no point. I mean to say, what’s the f*%^ing point. How does your meal talking back to you enrich your life at all…
I’ve never been too fond of living in a refugee shelter, but this Oriel Lamb seems hell bent on living with the pigs in the most deplorable conditions known to man.
I’d rate this book 7 out of 10 if it weren’t for senseless strings of idiosyncrasies. But taking this into account I’d rate it roughly 3.791 out of 100.
P.S. This is a positive comment… not.
I had to read this book for English (Goddam i hate english). Pretty much everyone in my class thought it was boring and hard to follow. And so did I. But the way it was written was quite interesting though. The book is more spiritual based and the language used is unique.
But in my opinion, it’s one of those books that if i HAD to read it, i’d only read it once and get it done and over with. That doesn’t mean, however, that this book is crap. most of you people are just complaining about the book due to it’s length and confusing language. Sure it’s long and confusing sometimes, but it’s the symbolism of the book that makes it a masterpiece. if you think it’s crap, thats fair enough, but thats your opinion, not the public’s opinion.
I read the first chapter of Cloudstreet, and was so irritated by its lack of climactic tension in threw it right back to the library, but then decided to read the script instead. Let me tell you, IT WAS AMAZING. It made me cry. So do read the play if you get a chance. Much much better.
Cloudstreet is eliquent in its brevity… with little development of plot. Winton spends the entire booktrying his hardest to convince the audience he is actually a good writer… even at the basic level of buffoonery he fails miserably… whilst taking away from the small underlying themes he develops within it…..
For example… Potentially the xenophobic nature of existance as expressesd through sams narrow viewpoint could intiate stimulation of a brain cell but winton even kills this idea…..
try harder next time winton ps i liked dirt music????
this book would have to be one of the best i have ever read. my english teacher gave it to my class to read, n it was inspiring and trippy.there are bits of it that i still dont get but over all, i really loved it and plan on reading his newest one called, water? i think lol anyways a recommend it. pretty good for an aussie story.
haha this is so funny, hearing all these bitches having a bitch about each other haha but they are all from 3 years ago…does someone want 2 explain to me the symbolism of the house (cloudstreet) cheers..
everybody that says they hate this book is honestly an idiot.
if you put your heart into it it is impossible to hate. it gives you this warm feeling; its the greatest thing ever written and its such a shame some of you cant understand that.
im in year 12 i read it and im not a nerd who is like weirdo into school work. give it a chance, because what this book gives you back is amazing.
first review ive read from a person with a brain cloudstreet is great love rose
and it lacking a plot as it has been quoted is hilarious.
its underneath the words the true story lies. Fish is the story.
The gift he finally gives at the end is the perfect closure and symbolism of reconciliation.
Its awkward’ way of been written and use of language is only a facade to uncover the true story.
So i think its good not everybody truly understands the ‘true story’ its almost an exclusive story. And it takes time and analysing to truly understand it.
The house represents the union for both the families. However, it is personified to give it spiritality and mysticism which elevates the importance of ‘home’ in ones life. The house also carries with it the memories of the Aborignal girls (“Back in Time” page 35); imperatively only Fish is able to see and communicate with the dead girls whilst he plays the piano which perhaps may represent that the past still encapsulates this house and it has yet not been accepted by everyone (including both the faimiles) as their ‘home’, which in it self indicates ones search for ‘home’ in their lives. Recognise, that ones Quick and Rose are married and Fish ‘dies’ the ghosts of the dea leave, indicating that this house is a ‘home’ (note the difference between ‘house’ and ‘home’)
I hope that helped; whoever asked that question. By the way, this is a great book, even though it is gravely multiplistic in its’ structure; it can be read in many different perspectives.
I also don’t think Fish really dies, otherwise the next scene would not be the two women calmly packing up the tent in the backyard.
I think its about a kind of inner death, of the mentally disabled Fish, which liberates another Fish, one with the mental faculties to be the narrator of the book but also with the spiritual powers that make possible the magic realist scenes of flying boats etc.
I am studying Cloudstreet now in Year 12 and I love it! It’s the best text we’ve done all year, our teacher was definitely saving the best for last! 10 out of 10 for a wonderful book Tim Winton!
P.S I expect the people that are unhappy with Cloudstreet (those at the very top of this comments section) would be better off reading Winton’s childrens books, they seem to be in that reading range.
hahaha i agree
This book is drivel.
No seriously, it really is. Cloudstreet is most tedious, pathetic excuse for a book that has been my misfortune to encounter.
Go on, I dare someone to convince me otherwise.
i didnt actually study the text,
but i saw it in a production and i thought it was GREAT!!
i would love to read it though because it was so captivating, knowing that it was set in perth wa, made it all that much better, to relate.
+ in production the rauchiness becomes unbearable!
:S
i’ll let you know tho how it goes after i read it
p.s. maybe this is the same for those who hate it, but when i have to study a text in class and do an analysis i begin to hate it with a vengance!
good luck though to ppl with exams etc
if you hated the novel, please try reading the play which has been adapted by Nick Enright and Justin Monjo. It’s so much easier to interperate and thus enjoy.. Dont give up on our aussie authors guys, if you do, well what kind of Australian are you? Give it a go, thats all i ask.
cheers
im doing cloudstreet
right’a'now
i didnt like it at first
and i dont yet completely understand it
but ive come to love some of the characters
oriel,rose,quick
i dont think wintons the best writer around
just the most popular
and since when were popular things the best?
i actually HATED this book on first beginning it
but once you get to the end, all the characters are just so beautiful, at it reminds you of the good times in life.
its is actually very clever.
i dont think its the best, but you can completely knock it to the ground.
does it not just remind you of your own families?
of people you know?
do you not just love the characters.
yeahh, im a convert
I am reading this book at the moment. Unfortunately, we have to do three pieces of assessment in 11 weeks on Cloudstreet. In my opinion i have to agree with most people, it seems to lack plot and Tim Winton develops the six main characters using a range of different, un-climatic events. This book contains too much text and only a small portion of the book can be analyzed thoroughly before it becomes too boring and pointless. If i ever have to read this book again i will most likely burn the book. Winton needs to write more entertaining books and stop trying to show off his impressive writing skills.
The pig symbolises chaos in the book, when the family finally comes together, the pig stops talking…..
i thought it was weird to start, but then it came together a bit and made a little more sense. will admit though, if i didn’t have to read ot for skool, i wouldn’t have. second read through is what make it a classic though, so worth it to do!
I think Winton has done a great job, also love his new one breathe and went to his talk at the orpheum. was soooooo good! so good to listen to.
Fantastic novel!
I must go out and get/read more Tim Winton books~!
I happened to love this book. Someone previously mentioned that if you had more than 10 brain cells you would hate it. I beg to differ. No I don’t, I’m going to disagree anyway, as I don’t need your permission. If you have enough intelligence to understand the book, you will realise just how very good it is. Plotline? You bet there’s a plotline. Heaps of them in fact. Idiosyncracies? Of course there are. You could not connect with a character without them.
Anyway, I think it is a wonderful book.
I’m reading this book in English Literature at the moment, and I happen to think it’s the most wonderfully constructed book ever created, and it happens to have been by one of our own.
If you think it doesn’t have a plotline, you are completely and utterly wrong. It’s plot begins with the death of the Aboriginal girl and ‘hag’ woman, and is even further constructed as the two families (The Lamb’s and The Pickles) come together under the one roof.
As the story goes on, we see the battles that the Australian working class is sometimes forced to deal with, and this leads us to one of the most relevant themes of the novel: the importance of family and home. Without our family, we are nothing. Our families shape who we are, and that is what Winton is trying to get across. Together they are able to pull through every challenge that comes their way.
The book is also about Fish’s journey of self-discovery. If you don’t understand the narrative structure, the entire novel is written through the eyes of the healthy adult version of Fish, who we know was brain-damaged when he nearly drowns. In his final moments, Fish is able to look back over his life and the lives of his family, and the novel is about him finally being able to understand.
As for the talking pig, this creature is no different to the ghosts that haunt Cloudstreet, it is used as a device in helping the reader to understand Fish’s childlike frame of mind. When Lester is able to hear the pig speak, it symbolises the fact that he is able to understand where Fish is at.
Lastly, I would just like to talk you through my favourite scene of the novel. It is the one where Rose and Quick make love for the first time, in the library. Their passions and lust for one another are enough to drive away the “shifty shadows” that haunt Cloustreet. I think it’s beautiful the way Winton is able to portray the fact that we, as people, can come together and overcome any obstacle.
the pig
he speaks and nobody but fish understands him
fish is clearly a symbol of christianity
christians primarily follow the bible
and the bible says we cant eat pigs, or any animal that is cleft footed or chews of the cud for that matter.
of course the bible was written with those messages so that the people in the time it was written wouldnt get disease and the like.
i believe that by killing the pig the lambs would have completely severed the ties with their relationship with ‘god’.
when the pig is attacked by dogs and nursed back to health by the lambs its symbolic of their slowly strengthening relationship with god, clearly demonstrated by the increasing number of religous references as the novel progresses.
Overall, the novel is filled with too many tiny details that everybody pays too much attention to, even Tim Winton. For a novel set over 20 years following the lives of people from their youths to their deaths, why do we know more about the pig than we do about Chub pickles
Does everyone know about the mini series coming out early next year?
They’ve been filming for the past few months, and my brother got the roll of Ted Pickles. I can’t really comment on the book as I’ve only just started reading it.
But I think you should definitely watch the mini series and see how it compares!
Winton’s novels can be difficult to read because he writes with such strong imagery and atmosphere.
So, I usually purchase two versions of the book. A paperback copy and an audio book. These audio books are read by actors and totally bring the whole thing to life. I find I can concentrate on the imagery and the plot twists, etc, when not having to read the text.
Then, after listening to the story at least once I read the paperback a couple of times.
Wonderful way to cope with long journeys.
After reading this book, along with my A Level class we have decided this is possible the worst book ever written, the fact that it is one of Australia’s best novels makes us fear what the worst must be like, with no real plot and six characters which are developed where only two have any slight interest to the reader, once I am done with this book I think I might have to burn it, but this vengeance against the book might have something to do with having to analysis everything small and pointless detail of it, but even so I would not recommended it to anyone unless you wish to read a book, which could drain the life out of you.
Burning the Man chapter says that Guy Fawkes day Nov 5th was the night for bonfires and crackers. My memory is that in Australia bonfires and cracker night was on Empire Day May 24th.
Twitter: mgorey
says:
Guy Fawkes Day was always celebrated on November 5 (or the nearest Saturday) in Victoria as “Bonfire Night” with firecrackers while they were allowed.
I assume WA was the same. Which state are you referring to Kevin?
Michael.
New South Wales. I have had it confirmed that cracker night in NSW was May 24th by newspaper articles in Sydney Morning Herald.
I am in WA and Guy Fawkes Day is 5th November. I am old enough to remember when we did have crackers in the back yard for Guy Fawkes Day.
i loved cloudstreet. i love the language used, i love the characters, i love the symbolisms, i love the strangeness of the whole thing. And i goddamn love the pig.
There is a movie being made based on this book. It is being filmed here in Perth. I know people who are working on the movie.
As for the pig, Isabella, I am told it is HUGE!
I have been able to go and visit the set… it is amazing how they recreated the old house and I am told, through the movie the home is restored to it’s former glory.
Can hardly wait to see the movie!
I think its a TV series?
Lee, it’s not a movie it’s a mini series to be shown on showtime.
i saw them film the pig scene! quite hilarious.
they built the house in 26 days from scratch, it is beautiful… so detailed. hard to believe they can build a new house and make it look decades old!
sad though, i’m pretty sure they have to tare it down when they’re done filming (soon) as the building isn’t stable enough to be kept there.
Yes that is true… it is a mini series for Foxtel.
I think everyone misses many of the themes and motifs within the book and it is the understanding of these which really allows the responders imagination to run wild and really appreciate the novel. I read the novel once and thought it was the weirdest book i’d ever seen, but if you look at it closely its magical.
Winton explores the reversal of a patriachal society through the dominance of women in the novel, ie oriel. He looks at aboriginal spirituality and allows Fish to explore and enlighten everyone. Winton uses cloudstreet the house metaphorically in to express the insularity of australia and the White Australia approach that was very common of the time.
The spirits of the house are again the aboriginal spirits and winton uses descriptions such as ‘the stink’ of the library to describe the attitudes of white australia towards them.
As for the pig, stop making it more then it is, its a pig, winton in an interview said that he used the pig to get around writers block and was astounded that so much symbolism can be put behind it.
I’m not saying everyone should enjoy this novel, not by any means. I’m just saying that before you judge it for being whacky, try and understand it.
What is the role of Beryl Lee? And whats the point of Fish glowing?
Thanks
It’s a story about the spiritual journeys that the characters take. =/ I can understand how people find it hard to follow, it’s really each to his own.
I really enjoyed the book, to be honest. All characters I found interesting. Each character has his or her own little quest, like Fish and his wish to reconnect with his spirituality or Quick and his acceptance of other’s grief. Or, well, that’s how I interpreted it. You really have to read between the lines with this book, which is why I can understand how maybe younger readers would find it harder to connect with.
Josiah, I agreee~
The beauty about this book is the language and the style. If you don’t take it too seriously, and simply read it for the language, it’s amazing. I could read those sorts of sentences over and over again…
I have to read Cloudstreet for a literature course here in Ireland. I knew Winton was one of the chosen authors and was delighted as I have read Dirt Music, Breathe, Open Swimmer and some short stories and have really enjoyed his descriptions-especially of the ocean, surf, beach towns culture. I do have problems with the language and would love a means to translate some of the lingo!. I am now so looking forward to reading this novel. I goggled winton cloudstreet..and this was the first item I went on to. I am so happy that in Australia the “government” have the wisdom to put current writers who write on modern themes on the literature syllabus. You Australians are lucky. Irish writers are not too bad either!
At first thought I wasnt a fan of this book and ended up putting it down for a while. However, I eventually picked it up again and managed to really get into it. While it may not put quotation marks around speech and have a set structure and plot, I found that these factors contributed to the overall theme of the novel as well as the fact that it is supposed to represent life. Many who complained about the first few chapters are forgetting that in the grand scheme of the things, life has its dull moments, however they all eventually lead to something bigger and if you gave the book a chance like I did, you would see the stories evolve along with the characters.
I read this book in HSC English. It is definitely my favourite book of all time. I am in love with the way Winton uses language. Beautiful words. Interesting and expressive use of (& lack of) punctuation. It’s no ordinary read. Each sentence is perfectly crafted. It’s genius.
Not only is each sentence perfectly crafted, all of the intricately woven symbolism & sub-plots create a story that is as perfectly constructed as the networks of the human brain.
I find this book very similar to A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. I hated every bit of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn until the very end. I felt the same way about Cloudstreet until I realized everything was coming together. What made both novels good in the end where the strong characters and both authors abilities to tie-in random events to the end. Personally I still couldn’t stand A Tree Grows in Brooklyn but Cloudstreet was so well crafted that it was enjoyable in the end. Could have been heaps shorter!
if you say a book is boring, its not the book that is boring, only a boring person.
LOL; Its amazing how many different ways people can find to all say the same things. Personally, I haven’t read the novel, but we’re doing the script for English and, true, at first I didn’t find it the most riveting of stories, until I stopped looking at the words and started looking at the story that it was portraying and the characters whose traits are still so easily seen in people of today. That was the point upon which I got hooked.
Also, although I found reading back through previous comments posted amusing, what really gets me is that people can be so bitchy about each other’s opinions. Just because someone does or doesn’t like something that you do doesn’t mean that they’re limited to a whole of 10 brain cells. Everyone likes different things, especially when it comes to things like books, art, movies, etc. It’s like asking a person whose lactose intolerant why they don’t like drinking milk? As pointed out above in relation to the pig, everyone has their own interpretations of things but just because they’re different to our own does this mean that we nail them to a stake and set them on fire? Hello! We’re in the C21 here! Not on some witch hunt in medieval times when people were killed just because they were different!
p.s. sorry for rambling, I only meant to make a brief statement. So much for that idea :b